Broadband dropout

Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off and
on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to login to
the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have crashed
completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and a Belkin
F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.

I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will reconnect
without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to reconnect
automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I power cycle
they will both reconnect immediately.

Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to have
two rather dodgy routers?

Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?

(I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line and I
will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to eliminate
problems with my equipment)

Andrew wrote:
> Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
> When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off
> and on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to
> login to the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have
> crashed completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and
> a Belkin F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.
>
> I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
> than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will
> reconnect without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to
> reconnect automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I
> power cycle they will both reconnect immediately.
>
> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to
> have two rather dodgy routers?
>
> Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?
>
> (I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line
> and I will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to
> eliminate problems with my equipment)

If you can't connect to the router to monitor its settings then the most
likely problem is that the router is (intermittently) faulty. However
if two routers show this problem then maybe your computer is faulty.

So try more than one computer - ideally simultaneously.

Is it true that **every** time you lose the internet connection you are
also unable to communicate with the router?

When this happens, do the indicator lights on the router show anything
useful? For example, one should show the state of the connection to the
computer; and one other should show the ADSL state. Some routers have a
light to show the PPPoA state.

When the router is working, and you are monitoring it from the computer,
try unplugging the ADSL wire to the microfilter. The router lights
should show the change in status, and the computer should show that the
router has no ADSL sync. Then reconnect the wire, and watch how the
computer and router lights change. You should see the synchronisation
process start, then complete; and after that the PPPoA session become
established. The terminology used by the router may not use the words
I've used, but their meaning should be clear.

If possible leave a (spare) computer monitoring the router continuously,
so you can see when it fails.

If your router can be managed from the internet, get a friend to monitor
it and report whether it has a connection to the internet at the same
time as you are unable to communicate with it. (Yes I have seen a
router demonstrate exactly this fault - consistently until it cooled down!)

--
Graham J

Andrew wrote:
> Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
> When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off
> and on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to
> login to the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have
> crashed completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and
> a Belkin F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.
>
> I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
> than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will
> reconnect without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to
> reconnect automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I
> power cycle they will both reconnect immediately.
>
> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to
> have two rather dodgy routers?
>

I suspect the latter. I had experience with a netgear that did that.
It all started to go wrong after a sever thunderstorm ;-)


> Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?
>

I love D-links and I Lurve my Billion router. Bitch to set up, but its
stable as heck. The only time its crapped on me was...after a
thunderstorm ...but power cycling it fixed that.


> (I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line
> and I will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to
> eliminate problems with my equipment)
>
I have as a result of a tech droid experience bought a cheapo router
that sits there 'in case' I need to prove the line is buggered, not my
equipment, again.

Its something called a TP-link. cheap enough and seems to work OK.

>

On 15/11/2011 05:08, Andrew wrote:
> Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
> When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off
> and on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to
> login to the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have
> crashed completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and
> a Belkin F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.
>
> I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
> than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will
> reconnect without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to
> reconnect automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I
> power cycle they will both reconnect immediately.
>
> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to
> have two rather dodgy routers?
>
> Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?
>
> (I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line
> and I will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to
> eliminate problems with my equipment)
>
>

Do you have a wired or wireless connection to your router? When it
refuses to talk to you, what happens if you ping its (LAN) IP address?

Do you have more than one computer connected to the router? If so, when
this problem occurs, can your PCs still communicate with each other?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Andrew wrote...

> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to have
> two rather dodgy routers?
>
How are you providing power to the routers? Is there much else plugged
into the ring main and have you tried using a surge and spike protector?


--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

Yes, many routers start to get flaky if they get too hot, hence I
never stack one on top of the other without something like a couple of
pencils in between so they can 'breathe'.

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:19:38 +0000, Graham J <graham@invalid> wrote:
>
> (Yes I have seen a
> router demonstrate exactly this fault - consistently until it cooled down!)
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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alexd wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher (for it is he) wrote:
>
>> I love D-links and I Lurve my Billion router. Bitch to set up, but its
>> stable as heck. The only time its crapped on me was...after a
>> thunderstorm ...but power cycling it fixed that.
>
>> Its something called a TP-link. cheap enough and seems to work OK.
>
> Funny you should mention that...someone I know who sells Billion routers who
> was looking for some substitutes because the distributor consistently has
> problems with getting hold of Billion stock. He was comparing screen shots
> between Billion and TP-Link routers and concluded that they're probably the
> same router inside. I haven't used a Billion but I've got a TP-Link on the
> way that supports IPsec tunnels and costs about £40 so would make a great
> homeworker router.
>
I grabbed Billion because at the time only it and the Draytek Vigor or
something did VOIP


And it had all the things I wanted - SNMP and syslog capability.

And it wasn't 'Styled'

I like it a lot. They are in short supply sadly.

More popular in Oz than here.

"Graham J" <graham@invalid> wrote in message
news:4ec22ec0$0$2544$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Andrew wrote:
>> Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
>> When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off
>> and on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to
>> login to the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have
>> crashed completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and
>> a Belkin F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.
>>
>> I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
>> than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will
>> reconnect without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to
>> reconnect automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I
>> power cycle they will both reconnect immediately.
>>
>> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to
>> have two rather dodgy routers?
>>
>> Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?
>>
>> (I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line
>> and I will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to
>> eliminate problems with my equipment)
>
> If you can't connect to the router to monitor its settings then the most
> likely problem is that the router is (intermittently) faulty. However if
> two routers show this problem then maybe your computer is faulty.
>
> So try more than one computer - ideally simultaneously.
Same problem on multiple PCs. Two are connected by cable, one is wireless.
The latter reports that it is unable to connect to a wireless network (or
similar message).

> Is it true that **every** time you lose the internet connection you are
> also unable to communicate with the router?
Yes, it does appear that I am unable to communicate with the router every
time I lose internet connection. On both routers!

> When this happens, do the indicator lights on the router show anything
> useful? For example, one should show the state of the connection to the
> computer; and one other should show the ADSL state. Some routers have a
> light to show the PPPoA state.
I am not sure. I'll take note next time it happens. I suspect I will not
need to wait long!

> When the router is working, and you are monitoring it from the computer,
> try unplugging the ADSL wire to the microfilter. The router lights should
> show the change in status, and the computer should show that the router
> has no ADSL sync. Then reconnect the wire, and watch how the computer and
> router lights change. You should see the synchronisation process start,
> then complete; and after that the PPPoA session become established. The
> terminology used by the router may not use the words I've used, but their
> meaning should be clear.
OK, an interesting idea. I can still connect (login) to the router when I
disconnect the ADSL wire.
I'll take note of the status LEDs next time the connection drops out to see
how it compares.

> If possible leave a (spare) computer monitoring the router continuously,
> so you can see when it fails.
I am not entirely sure how I see when it fails. If I leave my PC on all day
and come back to it after the connection has dropped, how do I determine
**when** it failed?
Also, unless I find it happens at the same time every day (which from
experience I am confident it does not) then I am not sure how it helps me.

> If your router can be managed from the internet, get a friend to monitor
> it and report whether it has a connection to the internet at the same time
> as you are unable to communicate with it. (Yes I have seen a router
> demonstrate exactly this fault - consistently until it cooled down!)
I've tried this. I can login to my home router from work. Usually if I try
later in the day I am unable to connect.

> --
> Graham J
>

Andrew wrote:
> "Graham J" <graham@invalid> wrote in message
> news:4ec22ec0$0$2544$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Andrew wrote:
>>> Recently my connection has been dropping out, may be 3 or 4 times a day.
>>> When it does so the router will never reconnect unless I switch it off
>>> and on again. Not only does the connection drop, but I am unable to
>>> login to the router to change/examine settings, so it appears to have
>>> crashed completely. I have two different routers, a Linksys WAG354G and
>>> a Belkin F5D9630-4, and exactly the same problem exists with both.
>>>
>>> I find it surprising that both routers seem to lock up completely rather
>>> than just lose internet connectivity and also that neither will
>>> reconnect without power cycling. I would have expected the routers to
>>> reconnect automatically. They never do, however long I wait, but when I
>>> power cycle they will both reconnect immediately.
>>>
>>> Is this in anyone's experience a common problem or do I just happen to
>>> have two rather dodgy routers?
>>>
>>> Any suggestions for alternative routers that might be more stable?
>>>
>>> (I appreciate that the dropout might be a problem with the phone line
>>> and I will in due course contact my ISP but first I would like to
>>> eliminate problems with my equipment)
>>
>> If you can't connect to the router to monitor its settings then the
>> most likely problem is that the router is (intermittently) faulty.
>> However if two routers show this problem then maybe your computer is
>> faulty.
>>
>> So try more than one computer - ideally simultaneously.
> Same problem on multiple PCs. Two are connected by cable, one is
> wireless. The latter reports that it is unable to connect to a wireless
> network (or similar message).
>
>> Is it true that **every** time you lose the internet connection you
>> are also unable to communicate with the router?
> Yes, it does appear that I am unable to communicate with the router
> every time I lose internet connection. On both routers!
>
>> When this happens, do the indicator lights on the router show anything
>> useful? For example, one should show the state of the connection to
>> the computer; and one other should show the ADSL state. Some routers
>> have a light to show the PPPoA state.
> I am not sure. I'll take note next time it happens. I suspect I will
> not need to wait long!
>
>> When the router is working, and you are monitoring it from the
>> computer, try unplugging the ADSL wire to the microfilter. The router
>> lights should show the change in status, and the computer should show
>> that the router has no ADSL sync. Then reconnect the wire, and watch
>> how the computer and router lights change. You should see the
>> synchronisation process start, then complete; and after that the PPPoA
>> session become established. The terminology used by the router may
>> not use the words I've used, but their meaning should be clear.
> OK, an interesting idea. I can still connect (login) to the router when
> I disconnect the ADSL wire.
> I'll take note of the status LEDs next time the connection drops out to
> see how it compares.
>
>> If possible leave a (spare) computer monitoring the router
>> continuously, so you can see when it fails.
> I am not entirely sure how I see when it fails. If I leave my PC on all
> day and come back to it after the connection has dropped, how do I
> determine **when** it failed?
> Also, unless I find it happens at the same time every day (which from
> experience I am confident it does not) then I am not sure how it helps me.
>
>> If your router can be managed from the internet, get a friend to
>> monitor it and report whether it has a connection to the internet at
>> the same time as you are unable to communicate with it. (Yes I have
>> seen a router demonstrate exactly this fault - consistently until it
>> cooled down!)
> I've tried this. I can login to my home router from work. Usually if I
> try later in the day I am unable to connect.
>
>> --
>> Graham J
>>
same crap as I had to the letter. router in bin job for me.

The damn thing is crashing...probably has a hardware fault - bad RAM
perhaps. Its doing a kernel panic probably, but who knows?

[snip]
>>
>> So try more than one computer - ideally simultaneously.
> Same problem on multiple PCs. Two are connected by cable, one is
> wireless. The latter reports that it is unable to connect to a wireless
> network (or similar message).
>
>> Is it true that **every** time you lose the internet connection you
>> are also unable to communicate with the router?
> Yes, it does appear that I am unable to communicate with the router
> every time I lose internet connection. On both routers!
>
>> When this happens, do the indicator lights on the router show anything
>> useful? For example, one should show the state of the connection to
>> the computer; and one other should show the ADSL state. Some routers
>> have a light to show the PPPoA state.
> I am not sure. I'll take note next time it happens. I suspect I will not
> need to wait long!
>
>> When the router is working, and you are monitoring it from the
>> computer, try unplugging the ADSL wire to the microfilter. The router
>> lights should show the change in status, and the computer should show
>> that the router has no ADSL sync. Then reconnect the wire, and watch
>> how the computer and router lights change. You should see the
>> synchronisation process start, then complete; and after that the PPPoA
>> session become established. The terminology used by the router may not
>> use the words I've used, but their meaning should be clear.
> OK, an interesting idea. I can still connect (login) to the router when
> I disconnect the ADSL wire.
> I'll take note of the status LEDs next time the connection drops out to
> see how it compares.
>
>> If possible leave a (spare) computer monitoring the router
>> continuously, so you can see when it fails.
> I am not entirely sure how I see when it fails. If I leave my PC on all
> day and come back to it after the connection has dropped, how do I
> determine **when** it failed?

Run routerstats on the PC and get it to log the connection and failures.

I know it seems unlikely that two routers are failing with the same
symptoms, but this is what your tests suggest.

Try yet another router ...

--
Graham J