Broadband and Home Networking Help Needed Please

Hi - I am new to this ng but have been spending a few days reading a lot of
very interesting posts and checking things out via a host of websites.

At present: -

I am connected to Freeserve (AnyTime) via an Internal PCI 56Kbps Dialup
Modem as is my Wife's PC - we have 2 separate AnyTime subscriptions on two
separate BT telephone lines. Additionally I have a NetGear EN2005 Ethernet
Hub (10Mbps only) which both our PC's are connected to. I did connect the
two PC's together recently without the Hub, but via a crossover cable and
enjoyed 100Mbps connectivity for file sharing but it is my intention to
connect a LapTop and my youngest daughter's Pc to the network so I am
persevering with the Hub for now. My own recently built PC is based around
the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe Motherboard which has an onboard LAN controller -
an Intel 82547EI Gigabit LAN Controller - and is capable of very fast
speeds. However there is no other RJ-45 Ethernet socket on the PC, unlike
some other mobos out there. My house contains many telephone sockets but
only one upstairs - this is used for voice calls and it is not practical to
plug in my daughters PC to it. When she requires the Internet, we have a
lengthy extension cable which she rolls out up the stairs - not very
satisfactory.

Future: -

We are due to have our exchange (WESTAYTON) upgraded to receive Broadband on
11.02.2004 and I will be cancelling 1 x BT Phone Line and 2 x Freeserve
AnyTime Subscriptions. Phone Line checks and knowledge show that I should
be more than capable of enjoying 1-2 Mbps Broadband connectivity and for the
moment I have decided to subscribe to a Pipex Solo2Go 1000 Package or
similar. I will want to pre-order in the very near future.

Broadband and Network Requirements: -

I want to enjoy file sharing at up to 100 Mbps speeds on the four PC's
described above - My eldest Daughter and son also have PC's (when they come
back home) and all our PC's are fitted with 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN cards.
So Initially four PC's will be connected but I want the option of plugging
in two others occasionally - A four-Port "device" should be ok as I can
easily unplug one of the regular PC's to make way temporarily for a
temporary one. In respect of my own PC, I do not want to install another
PCI card into it nor, if at all possible, to install a USB ADSL Modem. I
want to remove the existing PCI Internal Modems in all our PC's, once
evrything is up and running Broadband-wise. My youngest daughter's Pc
(upstairs) will have to be connected via a "wireless" method (and hopefully
too, my LapTop) and I want all four regular PC's to share the Broadband
Internet connection.

Equipment Needs: -

This is where I am a little hazy as my Networking skills have hitherto been
with Ethernet cards connected either via a Hub or coaxially or as indicated
at the beginning, 2 PC's connected via a cross-over cable. First up, I
think I am right in thinking that an ADSL Router is the way to go for the
Broadband connections, as to "share" the connection with a standard modem,
will necessitate the "sharing computer" to be switched on right? My needs
will be that any of the four regular PC's might want to connect to the
Internet, regardless as to whether any of the other three are switched on?
So I figure that connecting a Router to a new Hub (switch) of some kind to
which all the four PC's are connected, will do the trick right?

My own thoughts: -

If I am right so far - please make comment - what is the best way to connect
the four PC's for Networking at 100 Mbps with at least one (the one upstairs
and also the LapTop, if possible) being connected "wirelessly". I am
unfamiliar with Wireless Access Points and am confused regarding the speeds
of connection for both Internet Downloading and File Sharing that I could
enjoy with wireless connectivity. Speed is extremely important to us.
Would I be right in thinking that a Router with both RJ-45 sockets and a
Wireless Access Point, is what I need? and is one available? and at what
speed(s)? - I have heard of faster Wireless speeds - how do they compare
with hard-cabling methods?

Could someone please recommend what equipment I will need over and above
what I have already and advise me regarding the best way to install
"filters" for voice calls, faxes, Sky Digital etal, around the house. I
really do not want to have to spend a lot on fitting "micro-filters" to
every socket - how can I fit a BT "face-plate" to do the same thing? - is
this something I can do myself or is it an engineer install?

Going via Pipex for example, would it be possible to order all the necessary
equipment beforehand and have an engineer to sort the Voice Calls etc
situation out for me at the same time? Obviously I would see to the
networking myself.

I am sorry to go on a bit but I would be grateful for as much help and
guidance as possible here.

Regarding my connectivity I have referred to the following link : -

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/guide/co...p#microfilters

and I like the look of Wiring Diagram No. 5 (from the top). I don't
understand the need here for a Wireless Access Point but I believe I will
need one in my proposed setup and presumably a wireless LAN card of some
kind in the upstairs PC? and maybe a PCMCIA wireless card on the LapTop? -
is that all I'll need? It would be good to have the LapTop connected
wirelessly - this has Windows 98 SE - all my others are on Windows XP
Pro-SP1a, for mobility purposes around the house.

Could I please have recommendations for particular equipment too for the
Router and Hub (switch).

Thanks ever so much and I await replies very keenly

Paul


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Hi,

lots of questions there, many that I was wondering about until I got ADSL
last week, many are little things that seam daft to ask and usually you get
very technical answers that baffle more so I'll try to keep it simple from
my experiences. In fact I'll give general answers overall rather than
analyse your post.

I have 3 PCs connected to a D-Link 4 port router/modem. Any PC can access
the net at any time, no need for a particular PC to be on, the router/modem
makes the connection. Also all the PCs can access the net at the same time.
The only thing that has to be switched on is the router which acts as the
gateway to the net. (it also does more in providing a firewall, and gives IP
address to the PCs as they switch on, but you don't really need to know
about that as it 'just does it'! Just remember to switch the router on
first).

My router has 4 RJ45 ports all capable of running at 10 or 100Mbps, auto
sensing the speed of the cards.

Some routers come with wireless connections built in, BUT the best place for
the router might not be the best place for the wireless base unit so many
people recommend separate units. Also I've read that keeping the two parts
separate helps if you need to reboot either bit without effecting the other.

Filters, I have three, two on sockets with phones in and the other fitted
next to the PC where the router is plugged into. I brought an extra filter
from dabs for a couple of quid when I brought my router from them.

You should be able to add your existing hub to a router via one of the RJ45
ports using a cross-over lead to give you more ports, a bit like plugging a
4-way mains lead into another 4-way mains lead, you lose one outlet but gain
another three extra ones.

Hope this helps
Adam S

Brilliant Adam - thanks for that, basically you have confirmed that my
thinking is on the right lines.

Turning to both Wireless and Hard Cabling Networking, (I'm ok with the
Router now - this will be a standalone one as you recommend) apart from
"distributing" a Broadband connection to several PC's at once, are you
suggesting that if it has sufficient ports, then I don't need a further Hub
(or switch)? ie; can the Router itself be used as the Hub for Networking? -
by that I mean File-Sharing - I had assumed I would need both a Router and a
Hub.

If I need both, then are there Hubs out there that can provide both hard
cabling and wireless connectivity?

I am still anxious to know what connection speeds ("up to" figures) I can
get with "Wireless".

Paul

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"Adam S" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bpignn$36g$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> lots of questions there, many that I was wondering about until I got ADSL
> last week, many are little things that seam daft to ask and usually you
get
> very technical answers that baffle more so I'll try to keep it simple from
> my experiences. In fact I'll give general answers overall rather than
> analyse your post.
>
> I have 3 PCs connected to a D-Link 4 port router/modem. Any PC can access
> the net at any time, no need for a particular PC to be on, the
router/modem
> makes the connection. Also all the PCs can access the net at the same
time.
> The only thing that has to be switched on is the router which acts as the
> gateway to the net. (it also does more in providing a firewall, and gives
IP
> address to the PCs as they switch on, but you don't really need to know
> about that as it 'just does it'! Just remember to switch the router on
> first).
>
> My router has 4 RJ45 ports all capable of running at 10 or 100Mbps, auto
> sensing the speed of the cards.
>
> Some routers come with wireless connections built in, BUT the best place
for
> the router might not be the best place for the wireless base unit so many
> people recommend separate units. Also I've read that keeping the two parts
> separate helps if you need to reboot either bit without effecting the
other.
>
> Filters, I have three, two on sockets with phones in and the other fitted
> next to the PC where the router is plugged into. I brought an extra filter
> from dabs for a couple of quid when I brought my router from them.
>
> You should be able to add your existing hub to a router via one of the
RJ45
> ports using a cross-over lead to give you more ports, a bit like plugging
a
> 4-way mains lead into another 4-way mains lead, you lose one outlet but
gain
> another three extra ones.
>
> Hope this helps
> Adam S
>
>

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:17, "Paul" wrote:

>I want to remove the existing PCI Internal Modems in all our PC's, once
>evrything is up and running Broadband-wise.

I'd leave one or more in situ, even if they're not used, just on the off
chance of needing to use dial-up for a brief period if there's some prob.
(eg using an 0845 dial-up service if you were ever in dispute with ISP).

>First up, I think I am right in thinking that an ADSL Router is the way
>to go for the Broadband connections, as to "share" the connection with a
>standard modem, will necessitate the "sharing computer" to be switched on

Yes, a router will share the connection between your existing PCs easily
and should sit quietly in the corner, once set up. Many are auto-sensing
so will determine what is connected (eg via straight, or cross-over cable)
and the speed that's possible, so will go to 100 Mbps by default (I have a
10 Mbps single port router, but the 4-port models, even the cheapest ones
around 40 quid, handle 10/100).

>So I figure that connecting a Router to a new Hub (switch) of some kind to
>which all the four PC's are connected, will do the trick right?

You could continue to use your existing EN2005 (I think that's a 4-port)
linked to the router, for some extra ports usable only when your elder
daughter and son are home and need access, unless they need 100 Mbps
access for backing up files (?)


>Would I be right in thinking that a Router with both RJ-45 sockets and a
>Wireless Access Point, is what I need? and is one available? and at what
>speed(s)? - I have heard of faster Wireless speeds - how do they compare
>with hard-cabling methods?

Wireless is going to be slower than a cabled connection at 100 Mbps but
for sharing the ADSL service, it's really not an issue... only for the
possible file copying from machine to machine, where 100 Mbps would be
the fastests, wireless second (assuming you go for 22 or 54 Mbps units)
and then the lowly (but perfectly adequate :-) 10 Mbps as has been used
for many years... I had a Novell setup with coax in the mid-80s :-)

As for combined units, yes, there are some - the Netgear DG834 (DG824
being phased out, but it might be availbale), apparently has 4 ports in
it for cables, and wireless access (but I have no wireless kit, and
cannot comment on it. but spotted the DG834 at under 80 quid (+VAT) at
www.NickKnows.com ) Going back to the diagram, the reason for the WAP
as a separate unit was because someone might add it some time after a
router/ADSL modem was bought. 2 years ago there were few reviews of
ADSL routers, from my memory, and I guess combined router/WAP was not
available (or very expensive, and slower than today's kit anyway).

I've just put a filter in at the master socket and have my router there
with cable leading away... I've not bothered to change the faceplate,
but then again, I don't have extension cable wired into the socket,
but use plug-in extensions wherever needed. I'll leave others to
give suggestions about the phone leads - I've kept both lines, which
would mean you'd need no filters for the home number you use for voice
(and could later use to sign up to some other ISP if they offered some
other facility or speed, before closing the first account)...

Good luck... you'll definitely get the lot connected, but I'm not too
sure of the "need for speed" - you'll fill up those HDs very quickly
The main reason I have 2 ADSL connections at present is flexibilty and
because I work from home on the net, so if one ISP has problems, I'll
hopefully not be disadvantaged for too long (just a gateway switch to
the other router and most things will work again :-) Peter M.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, "Paul" wrote:

>I am still anxious to know what connection speeds ("up to" figures)
>I can get with "Wireless".

"up to 54 Mbps" but as Gareth Babb posted just the other day, the
quality of the radio signal will have great bearing on the speed.
ADSLguide has a review of a D-Link combined unit, and there's the
Netgear model(s) DG824 and DG834 to read about...

My first router was a 4-port primarily to allow me the 100 Mbps
connections... I have some 8-port hubs with BNCs around too,
but you can get a 12 port 10/100 switch on Ebay if you want to
put sockets in every room :-)

Thanks Peter - it's coming clearer to me now!

Again though you mention keeping the Hub for additional ports.

I apologise for appearing thick but I am a newbie lol! but can I dispense
with a hub altogether and simply connect my PC's to it (whether wirelessly
or via RJ-45 cabling) BOTH to connect to the Internet AND for File-Sharing
Networking? I thought that a Router was only for Broadband, not Networking?
Am I wrong in this assumption - sorry to ask

Paul

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"Peter Morgan - 0870 432 9631" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) .net...
> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:17, "Paul" wrote:
>
> >I want to remove the existing PCI Internal Modems in all our PC's, once
> >evrything is up and running Broadband-wise.
>
> I'd leave one or more in situ, even if they're not used, just on the off
> chance of needing to use dial-up for a brief period if there's some prob.
> (eg using an 0845 dial-up service if you were ever in dispute with ISP).
>
> >First up, I think I am right in thinking that an ADSL Router is the way
> >to go for the Broadband connections, as to "share" the connection with a
> >standard modem, will necessitate the "sharing computer" to be switched on
>
> Yes, a router will share the connection between your existing PCs easily
> and should sit quietly in the corner, once set up. Many are auto-sensing
> so will determine what is connected (eg via straight, or cross-over cable)
> and the speed that's possible, so will go to 100 Mbps by default (I have a
> 10 Mbps single port router, but the 4-port models, even the cheapest ones
> around 40 quid, handle 10/100).
>
> >So I figure that connecting a Router to a new Hub (switch) of some kind
to
> >which all the four PC's are connected, will do the trick right?
>
> You could continue to use your existing EN2005 (I think that's a 4-port)
> linked to the router, for some extra ports usable only when your elder
> daughter and son are home and need access, unless they need 100 Mbps
> access for backing up files (?)
>
>
> >Would I be right in thinking that a Router with both RJ-45 sockets and a
> >Wireless Access Point, is what I need? and is one available? and at what
> >speed(s)? - I have heard of faster Wireless speeds - how do they compare
> >with hard-cabling methods?
>
> Wireless is going to be slower than a cabled connection at 100 Mbps but
> for sharing the ADSL service, it's really not an issue... only for the
> possible file copying from machine to machine, where 100 Mbps would be
> the fastests, wireless second (assuming you go for 22 or 54 Mbps units)
> and then the lowly (but perfectly adequate :-) 10 Mbps as has been used
> for many years... I had a Novell setup with coax in the mid-80s :-)
>
> As for combined units, yes, there are some - the Netgear DG834 (DG824
> being phased out, but it might be availbale), apparently has 4 ports in
> it for cables, and wireless access (but I have no wireless kit, and
> cannot comment on it. but spotted the DG834 at under 80 quid (+VAT) at
> www.NickKnows.com ) Going back to the diagram, the reason for the WAP
> as a separate unit was because someone might add it some time after a
> router/ADSL modem was bought. 2 years ago there were few reviews of
> ADSL routers, from my memory, and I guess combined router/WAP was not
> available (or very expensive, and slower than today's kit anyway).
>
> I've just put a filter in at the master socket and have my router there
> with cable leading away... I've not bothered to change the faceplate,
> but then again, I don't have extension cable wired into the socket,
> but use plug-in extensions wherever needed. I'll leave others to
> give suggestions about the phone leads - I've kept both lines, which
> would mean you'd need no filters for the home number you use for voice
> (and could later use to sign up to some other ISP if they offered some
> other facility or speed, before closing the first account)...
>
> Good luck... you'll definitely get the lot connected, but I'm not too
> sure of the "need for speed" - you'll fill up those HDs very quickly
> The main reason I have 2 ADSL connections at present is flexibilty and
> because I work from home on the net, so if one ISP has problems, I'll
> hopefully not be disadvantaged for too long (just a gateway switch to
> the other router and most things will work again :-) Peter M.

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bpii4o$dna$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks Peter - it's coming clearer to me now!
>
> Again though you mention keeping the Hub for additional ports.
>
> I apologise for appearing thick but I am a newbie lol! but can I dispense
> with a hub altogether and simply connect my PC's to it (whether wirelessly
> or via RJ-45 cabling) BOTH to connect to the Internet AND for File-Sharing
> Networking? I thought that a Router was only for Broadband, not
Networking?
> Am I wrong in this assumption - sorry to ask
>
> Paul

Quick answer - Yes, the router, if it has four ports will act as a hub. You
can file share between the PCs.

Adam S

The entity currently known as Paul wrote:

> but can I dispense with a hub altogether and simply connect my PC's
> to it (whether wirelessly or via RJ-45 cabling) BOTH to connect to
> the Internet AND for File-Sharing Networking?

Yes, absolutely. The router has a hum built in. It's a modem, a
router, an wireless access point, and a hub, all in one box. It acts
in just the same was as the four components would in different boxes,
other than being rather easier to configure.

> I thought that a Router was only for Broadband, not Networking? Am
> I wrong in this assumption - sorry to ask

Yes, you are wrong in this.

--
Iain A F Fleming

Brilliant Guys!

What this means is that I can afford a good quality and higher spec Router
now

Presumably the normal file-sharing speed standards are maintained in a
"combined Router" ie; If I connect via RJ-45 cabling, in my setup right now
with 10/100 Ethernet NIC's installed in my 'puters, I can expect "up to" 100
MBps? and if I connect "wirelessly" with the new "g" standard, I can get
"up to" 54MBps, although care will need to be excersised with regard to the
placement of the WAP?

If I am right on all this now, can you recommend a suitable Router/WAP -
preferring separate units on the basis that the Router has an ADSL modem
within it please?

Paul

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"Iain A F Fleming" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:6hekw3.w23u-(E-Mail Removed)...
> The entity currently known as Paul wrote:
>
> > but can I dispense with a hub altogether and simply connect my PC's
> > to it (whether wirelessly or via RJ-45 cabling) BOTH to connect to
> > the Internet AND for File-Sharing Networking?
>
> Yes, absolutely. The router has a hum built in. It's a modem, a
> router, an wireless access point, and a hub, all in one box. It acts
> in just the same was as the four components would in different boxes,
> other than being rather easier to configure.
>
> > I thought that a Router was only for Broadband, not Networking? Am
> > I wrong in this assumption - sorry to ask
>
> Yes, you are wrong in this.
>
> --
> Iain A F Fleming

> Presumably the normal file-sharing speed standards are maintained in a
> "combined Router" ie; If I connect via RJ-45 cabling, in my setup right
now
> with 10/100 Ethernet NIC's installed in my 'puters, I can expect "up to"
100
> MBps?

Yes

> and if I connect "wirelessly" with the new "g" standard, I can get
> "up to" 54MBps, although care will need to be excersised with regard to
the
> placement of the WAP?

Not used wireless myself so I can't comment, sorry.

>
> If I am right on all this now, can you recommend a suitable Router/WAP -
> preferring separate units on the basis that the Router has an ADSL modem
> within it please?
>

I personally would go with a 'named' unit, D-Link, Netgear etc rather than
some unheard of brand. (idealy I would like a cisco one but I dont have that
much money!) In the end I chose a US robotics one but brought the D-Link
one purely because the US Robotics was sold out everywhere I went. Very
happy with D-Link though.

Adam S