Blueyonder Censors Customer Complaint

The following Blueyonder customer thread posted under the heading
"BLUEYONDER MAIL SERVERS ARE DEFINITELY BLACKLISTED" was completely removed
from the Blueyonder Newsgroup earlier this month and the customer barred
from making any further postings.

Blueyonder mail servers remain blacklisted and their attempts at censorship
have been thwarted since this Blueyonder customer happened to e-mail the
contents of this posting to his own ISP, thereby preserving a complete
record of what Blueyonder tried to censor.

Here it is:


"Mark" wrote in message
news:sknFb.2$(E-Mail Removed)...

Blueyonder e-mail is a complete nightmare! I've been complaining about
several of their SMTP servers being blacklisted for weeks now. e-mail
complaints are completely ignored. Written complaints generate a
standard letter but absolutely no action. Most of my outgoing mails sent
via
Blueyonder never actually reach their intended recipients any more. I am
having to use Hotmail instead whilst paying Blueyonder for a Broadband
connection with e-mail "service".

I have given up completely on Blueyonder - I've told them to close my
account and I am taking them to court claiming their grossly inadequate
e-mail "service" amounts to a fundamental breach of contract.

Check their blacklisted status on just one of their mail servers here:

http://www.dnsbl.us.sorbs.net/cgi-bi...195.188.213.10


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> Dear Mark,
>
> Have you contacted (E-Mail Removed) regarding this. We will not pay
> third parties for removal from their blacklists.
>
> --
> Kind Regards
> Rachel Gorst
> Blueyonder Technical Support
> http://status.blueyonder.co.uk:888/
> http://help.blueyonder.co.uk/contact


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


You bet I've contacted (E-Mail Removed) and do you know what
(E-Mail Removed) do about it?

Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

The problem is that most Blueyonder customers contributing to this newsgroup
have no idea that it is Blueyonder's policy of doing nothing that has
virtually crippled your e-mail service.

Blueyonder servers remain blacklisted in increasing numbers due to their
involvement in the dissemination of spam. And what effect does this have on
Blueyonder customers? They can't send e-mails through Blueyonder because
many of their intended recipients' service providers refuse to accept mail
from second rate cowboy outfits like Blueyonder that have little or no
regard to their blacklisted status. This is happening to me on a daily
basis!

So Blueyonder adopts a policy of refusing to pay a small fine imposed on
them due to their involvement in the dissemination of spam? And who suffers?
Blueyonder customers - that's who.

I'm leaving Blueyonder and transferring my account to Demon because I need a
service provider I can trust to deliver my e-mail. Not one that adopts
awkward policies of refusing to pay for its mistakes or to act responsibly.

I would suggest that every single Blueyonder customer reading this who also
considers their mail to be important to them also takes the same step as me
and leaves Blueyonder - now. The inevitable consequence of remaining with
Blueyonder is that more and more of your e-mails will simply bounce back to
you as undeliverable, just like mine are every day of the week.

I'm taking Blueyonder to court over its inadequte e-mail "service" which
will also have the effect of raising public awareness of Blueyonder's status
as a second rate cowboy ISP that couldn't care less about its customers or
the inadequate service it palms off on them.

So Blueyonder ... Save the $50 fine for your involvement in spam and watch
your customers leave - in their thousands.

Mark
Blueyonder Account: mm003b2396


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> Dear Mark,
>
> The support team covering the support groups pass all instnces of
> blacklisting to abuse to allow them to contact the domain/blacklist
> organisation and request the removal of the blueyonder servers from the
> blacklist. The abuse team have no control over how quickly the request is
> complied with. We do not pass these instances internally if abuse have
> already been contacted as this merely generates duplicate reports. The
> network is scanned constantly for open relays (please see the monthly
> updates in the announcemnets section of the status page for details of the
> number of open relays tracked and closed). In addition the abuse team do
> read this newsgroup see examples below of how they have responded to
> blacklist reports. Other steps being considered are SMTP authentication
see
> the comments from Geoff below.
>
>
> All,
>
> I've noticed a dramatic increase in the number of reports coming in to the
> abuse@ mailbox regarding mailservers using spamcop's blacklist bouncing
mail
> from smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk and smtp-out8.blueyonder.co.uk. I have
> requested their removal.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Geoff Dunham
> blueyonder Internet Security & Abuse Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Either you do or you don't pay 3rd parties for removal of your blacklisted
status due to your involvement in the dissemination of spam.

If you do, then you're removed promptly, but clearly you don't because the
same servers have been blacklisted for literally weeks on end. If you don't
pay, then Blueyonder customers' mail doesn't arrive and then Blueyonder
customers like me start closing their accounts.

Somone called Rachel Gorst from Blueyonder Technical Support assures us that
you don't pay.

So which of you is talking rubbish here?

Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Of course I don't blame all those responsible ISPs who cooperate with
blacklists of the second rate cowboy ISPs like Blueyonder who couldn't care
less about their contribution to spam and their continous involvement in
this disgusting industry.

It is only by the responsible IPSs boycotting the cowboy ISPs like
Blueyonder that participate in the business of disseminating spam that we
can start to tackle this huge problem. If Blueyonder continues to bury its
head in the sand and refuses to address the error of its ways, it will
render its own e-mail system completely useless and, with it, themselves
too.

The following comments from Rachel Gorst of Blueyonder Technical Support
would make an excellent epitaph for Blueyonder's tombstone:

"Dear Mark,

Have you contacted (E-Mail Removed) regarding this. We will not pay
third parties for removal from their blacklists.
--
Kind Regards
Rachel Gorst
Blueyonder Technical Support
http://status.blueyonder.co.uk:888/
http://help.blueyonder.co.uk/contact"

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 10:56:09 -0000, [Mark] mentioned :-

>The following Blueyonder customer thread posted under the heading

<snip>

What he, and many others fail to realise, is that the internet is made
up of private networks - and those admins of those networks can do
what they want.

No service will ever guarantee that email will be received. Likewise,
the "recipient" has the total right to refuse it.

BY, as well as all other ISPs on the planet, has spam problems, I
agree it's up to them to sort it out. Abuse teams of them are very
slow to act - and hence they get into blocklists.

If "Mark" thinks that going to Demon will "cure" his email problems,
he may be in for a nasty shock.

As for taking them to court - IANAL, but I would say he has no chance.

What he doesn't say, is to what ISP his emails are being blocked.

In article <8FyHb.3331$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mark
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>The following Blueyonder customer thread posted under the heading
>"BLUEYONDER MAIL SERVERS ARE DEFINITELY BLACKLISTED" was completely removed
>from the Blueyonder Newsgroup earlier this month and the customer barred
>from making any further postings.
>
>Blueyonder mail servers remain blacklisted and their attempts at censorship
>have been thwarted since this Blueyonder customer happened to e-mail the
>contents of this posting to his own ISP, thereby preserving a complete
>record of what Blueyonder tried to censor.
>
>Here it is:
>
>
> "Mark" wrote in message
> news:sknFb.2$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Blueyonder e-mail is a complete nightmare! I've been complaining about
> several of their SMTP servers being blacklisted for weeks now. e-mail
> complaints are completely ignored. Written complaints generate a
> standard letter but absolutely no action. Most of my outgoing mails sent
>via
> Blueyonder never actually reach their intended recipients any more. I am
> having to use Hotmail instead whilst paying Blueyonder for a Broadband
> connection with e-mail "service".
>
> I have given up completely on Blueyonder - I've told them to close my
> account and I am taking them to court claiming their grossly inadequate
> e-mail "service" amounts to a fundamental breach of contract.
>
> Check their blacklisted status on just one of their mail servers here:
>
> http://www.dnsbl.us.sorbs.net/cgi-bi...195.188.213.10
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>
>> Dear Mark,
>>
>> Have you contacted (E-Mail Removed) regarding this. We will not pay
>> third parties for removal from their blacklists.
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards
>> Rachel Gorst
>> Blueyonder Technical Support
>> http://status.blueyonder.co.uk:888/
>> http://help.blueyonder.co.uk/contact
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>
>You bet I've contacted (E-Mail Removed) and do you know what
>(E-Mail Removed) do about it?
>
>Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
>
>The problem is that most Blueyonder customers contributing to this newsgroup
>have no idea that it is Blueyonder's policy of doing nothing that has
>virtually crippled your e-mail service.
>
>Blueyonder servers remain blacklisted in increasing numbers due to their
>involvement in the dissemination of spam. And what effect does this have on
>Blueyonder customers? They can't send e-mails through Blueyonder because
>many of their intended recipients' service providers refuse to accept mail
>from second rate cowboy outfits like Blueyonder that have little or no
>regard to their blacklisted status. This is happening to me on a daily
>basis!
>
>So Blueyonder adopts a policy of refusing to pay a small fine imposed on
>them due to their involvement in the dissemination of spam? And who suffers?
>Blueyonder customers - that's who.
>
>I'm leaving Blueyonder and transferring my account to Demon because I need a
>service provider I can trust to deliver my e-mail. Not one that adopts
>awkward policies of refusing to pay for its mistakes or to act responsibly.
>
>I would suggest that every single Blueyonder customer reading this who also
>considers their mail to be important to them also takes the same step as me
>and leaves Blueyonder - now. The inevitable consequence of remaining with
>Blueyonder is that more and more of your e-mails will simply bounce back to
>you as undeliverable, just like mine are every day of the week.
>
>I'm taking Blueyonder to court over its inadequte e-mail "service" which
>will also have the effect of raising public awareness of Blueyonder's status
>as a second rate cowboy ISP that couldn't care less about its customers or
>the inadequate service it palms off on them.
>
>So Blueyonder ... Save the $50 fine for your involvement in spam and watch
>your customers leave - in their thousands.
>
>Mark
>Blueyonder Account: mm003b2396
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>
>> Dear Mark,
>>
>> The support team covering the support groups pass all instnces of
>> blacklisting to abuse to allow them to contact the domain/blacklist
>> organisation and request the removal of the blueyonder servers from the
>> blacklist. The abuse team have no control over how quickly the request is
>> complied with. We do not pass these instances internally if abuse have
>> already been contacted as this merely generates duplicate reports. The
>> network is scanned constantly for open relays (please see the monthly
>> updates in the announcemnets section of the status page for details of the
>> number of open relays tracked and closed). In addition the abuse team do
>> read this newsgroup see examples below of how they have responded to
>> blacklist reports. Other steps being considered are SMTP authentication
>see
>> the comments from Geoff below.
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I've noticed a dramatic increase in the number of reports coming in to the
>> abuse@ mailbox regarding mailservers using spamcop's blacklist bouncing
>mail
>> from smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk and smtp-out8.blueyonder.co.uk. I have
>> requested their removal.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Geoff Dunham
>> blueyonder Internet Security & Abuse Team
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>Either you do or you don't pay 3rd parties for removal of your blacklisted
>status due to your involvement in the dissemination of spam.
>
>If you do, then you're removed promptly, but clearly you don't because the
>same servers have been blacklisted for literally weeks on end. If you don't
>pay, then Blueyonder customers' mail doesn't arrive and then Blueyonder
>customers like me start closing their accounts.
>
>Somone called Rachel Gorst from Blueyonder Technical Support assures us that
>you don't pay.
>
>So which of you is talking rubbish here?
>
>Mark
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>Of course I don't blame all those responsible ISPs who cooperate with
>blacklists of the second rate cowboy ISPs like Blueyonder who couldn't care
>less about their contribution to spam and their continous involvement in
>this disgusting industry.
>
>It is only by the responsible IPSs boycotting the cowboy ISPs like
>Blueyonder that participate in the business of disseminating spam that we
>can start to tackle this huge problem. If Blueyonder continues to bury its
>head in the sand and refuses to address the error of its ways, it will
>render its own e-mail system completely useless and, with it, themselves
>too.
>
>The following comments from Rachel Gorst of Blueyonder Technical Support
>would make an excellent epitaph for Blueyonder's tombstone:
>
>"Dear Mark,
>
>Have you contacted (E-Mail Removed) regarding this. We will not pay
>third parties for removal from their blacklists.
>--
>Kind Regards
>Rachel Gorst
>Blueyonder Technical Support
>http://status.blueyonder.co.uk:888/
>http://help.blueyonder.co.uk/contact"
>
>
>
>

If it is any consolation Tesco mail appears to have now started to
suffer in the same way.
I have just received 2 "Host blocked messages" and had to send mail via
another isp!
Wally Hayward
Free download. Block SPAM Now! http://BlockSpamNow.com/r/5712

In article <8FyHb.3331$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mark
said......

>
> Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.
>
>
>
Wasn't it Blueyonder who got served a Usenet Death Penalty in 2002?
They are not doing too well in policing their customers.
--
Mugwump

Reply to 'usenetmail{at}discworld{dot}org{dot}uk

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:57:13 -0000, Mugwump <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.
>>
>>
>>
>Wasn't it Blueyonder who got served a Usenet Death Penalty in 2002?

http://tinyurl.com/254qr




Alex


---

Alex Brown
Internet Consultant
Application Services, Telewest Broadband

"Mugwump" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <8FyHb.3331$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mark
> said......
>
> >
> > Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.
> >
> Wasn't it Blueyonder who got served a Usenet Death Penalty in 2002?
> They are not doing too well in policing their customers.

Threatened but never served.

"Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8FyHb.3331$(E-Mail Removed)...
> The following Blueyonder customer thread posted under the heading
> "BLUEYONDER MAIL SERVERS ARE DEFINITELY BLACKLISTED" was completely
removed
> from the Blueyonder Newsgroup earlier this month and the customer barred
> from making any further postings.

Sigh... this is the 3rd ng that I've read this in so far, here's the reply
I've already posted elsewhere.

> "Mark" wrote in message
> news:sknFb.2$(E-Mail Removed)...

This post is *still* available on the by text server and will be for many
months to come, although it may have dropped off of the binary server as the
retension for that one is measured in days.

It has *not* been cancelled by blueyonder support.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) (Mugwump)
wrote:

> > Don't blame Blueyonder - blame all those ISPs blocking Blueyonder mail.
> >
> Wasn't it Blueyonder who got served a Usenet Death Penalty in 2002?
> They are not doing too well in policing their customers.

Blueyonder are fighting a losing battle, they have 400,000 cable modem
users 90% of which have probably never heard of a firewall, the IP address
ranges are well known to spammers and are thus targeted continually.

For a couple of years Blueyonder has been scanning it's users PCs for open
relays and proxies and closing down such cable modems. But it only takes
one idiot out of 400,000 to relay a spam and these various commercial
blacking listing agencies suddenly start holding ISPs to ransom to be
removed from their black lists.

Most other large ISPs are similarly blacklisted at one time or another.

I quite agree that having the Blueyonder SMTP servers black listed is a
pain, but you don't have to use them, simply use a smaller ISP that will
offer SMTP authentication and does not get blacklisted, I use Merula,
http://www.merula.net/, they also offer ADSL.

The basic Blueyonder service is excellent, and goes down much less often
than ADSL (which I also have), you will often find problems moving to other
ISPs like ports or ICMP being blocked, or silly bandwidth restrictions, I
can do what I like with my 2 megs from Blueyonder.

Angus

On 28 Dec 2003 13:54 GMT, Alex Brown <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>http://tinyurl.com/254qr

for anyone "careful" about launching tinyurl.com links, it goes
to Google and amongst a number of comments I noticed:

"I know the question asked is "Why didn't they do it before?"
And of course we all know they should have."

That was written of BY, but could equally have been written of Demon
a few months before as they too had spam (via individual open relays)
but were not that fast at spotting it and when they did, threatened to
cut off anyone with an open relay (harsh, but understandable) and then
simply blocked port 25 until the user could prove they had effected a
cure. Switching from one ISP to another (or one hosting service to
another) is little guarantee that some foolish spammer won't cause
a server or ISP to be blacklisted. Easier to be blacklisted than
removed from same, from some examples I've seen. Still, most of
the time my incoming mail is unaffected (POP mailboxes on remote
servers work pretty well for me :-) Peter M.

"Mark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8FyHb.3331$(E-Mail Removed)...
> The following Blueyonder customer thread posted under the heading
> "BLUEYONDER MAIL SERVERS ARE DEFINITELY BLACKLISTED" was completely
removed
> from the Blueyonder Newsgroup earlier this month and the customer barred
> from making any further postings.
>
Who cares!
The only way ISP's will ever become responsible is if customers like you hit
them where it hurts in their pockets.
If they won't sort out their mail set-up and act responsibly to abuse
complaints that "THEIR" customers are responsible for then find another
provider and stop subsidising their shite service.

They don't deserve to be in the ISP arena unless they act responsibly.
Likewise they should be booting every spammer that's from their domain (But
hey £30 a month subs and spam........ Hmmm guess which they'll retain).

Dom