Blackberry breaks BT Internet - long-winded!

Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT internet.
He also has a POP3 account with Clara.

On Friday he got himself a Blackberry. Using the website at
http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ he first created an account for himself.
He can send and receive email from this account using the Blackberry. But
of course he wants to receive email from his Clara account and from his BT
Internet account.

So he logs into http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ and provides his username
and password. Then he proceeds to add the details for his Clara account.
There are several seconds delay before he is led to the "advanced settings"
page because the Clara POP3 login is different from his Clara email
address - but it all works OK. Messages sent to the Clara account arrive on
the Blackberry after a few minutes, and are kept on the Clara POP3 server so
Outlook can receive them later - as expected.

Now he repeats the process with the credentials for the BT Internet account.
This fails immediately with an uninformative message. He rings the
technical support for the Blackberry supplier - the response "yes this
happens quite often, keep trying" !!!

Since trying to set up the BT Internet account for the Blackblerry his
Outlook has not been able to collect email from the BT Internet POP3
server - at least, not reliably; I'm told it did work for a few hours this
morning. It fails with:

"""""""""""
Task 'Nick @ BTInternet - Receiving' reported error (0x800CCC92) : 'Your
e-mail server rejected your login. Verify your user name and password in
your account properties. Under Tools, click E-mail accounts. The server
responded: -ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com'
"""""""""""

However Nick can login at http://mail.yahoo.com' or www.btinternet.com and
provide his credentials, and is able to view his emails OK.

His POP3 account with Clara continues to work OK from Outlook. From a
different location, using a different ADSL connection and a different
computer I set up an account with Nick's credentials, choose the "leave
messages on server" option; and I see exactly the same error message about
rejection of login. But I too can use Nick's credentials to read his email
via the BT-Internet (i.e.Yahoo) website.

For the benefit of readers on this ng I tried logging into the Vodafone site
to see the exact details of the failure when trying to set up the Blackberry
to read mail from the BT Internet server. I provide the email address and
password. Bear in mind that the login name required when using a POP3
client such as Outlook is simply the text before the @ sign - as it was with
the Clara account - so I expected to be led to the advanced section to
complete these details.

This time the Vodafone site waits about 10 seconds and reports that it has
created the account !!! Immediately afterwards the Blackberry receives an
email confirming this. I send a message to his BT Internet address, and
after about 15 minutes (the expected delay) the Blackberry receives it.

But Outlook continues to fail with the login error.

This seems to be a fault with the BT Internet POP3 server - but why does
their website accept the login, and why does it work from the Blackberry?
And is it simply conincidence that this failed at exactly the time that Nick
first tried to set up the Blackberry to read his mail from the BT Internet
account?

Any ideas gratefully received.

--
Graham J

In message <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT internet.
>He also has a POP3 account with Clara.
>
>On Friday he got himself a Blackberry. Using the website at
>http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ he first created an account for himself.
>He can send and receive email from this account using the Blackberry. But
>of course he wants to receive email from his Clara account and from his BT
>Internet account.
>
>So he logs into http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ and provides his username
>and password. Then he proceeds to add the details for his Clara account.
>There are several seconds delay before he is led to the "advanced settings"
>page because the Clara POP3 login is different from his Clara email
>address - but it all works OK. Messages sent to the Clara account arrive on
>the Blackberry after a few minutes, and are kept on the Clara POP3 server so
>Outlook can receive them later - as expected.
>
>Now he repeats the process with the credentials for the BT Internet account.
>This fails immediately with an uninformative message. He rings the
>technical support for the Blackberry supplier - the response "yes this
>happens quite often, keep trying" !!!
>
>Since trying to set up the BT Internet account for the Blackblerry his
>Outlook has not been able to collect email from the BT Internet POP3
>server - at least, not reliably; I'm told it did work for a few hours this
>morning. It fails with:
>
>"""""""""""
>Task 'Nick @ BTInternet - Receiving' reported error (0x800CCC92) : 'Your
>e-mail server rejected your login. Verify your user name and password in
>your account properties. Under Tools, click E-mail accounts. The server
>responded: -ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com'
>"""""""""""
>
>However Nick can login at http://mail.yahoo.com' or www.btinternet.com and
>provide his credentials, and is able to view his emails OK.
>
>His POP3 account with Clara continues to work OK from Outlook. From a
>different location, using a different ADSL connection and a different
>computer I set up an account with Nick's credentials, choose the "leave
>messages on server" option; and I see exactly the same error message about
>rejection of login. But I too can use Nick's credentials to read his email
>via the BT-Internet (i.e.Yahoo) website.
>
>For the benefit of readers on this ng I tried logging into the Vodafone site
>to see the exact details of the failure when trying to set up the Blackberry
>to read mail from the BT Internet server. I provide the email address and
>password. Bear in mind that the login name required when using a POP3
>client such as Outlook is simply the text before the @ sign - as it was with
>the Clara account - so I expected to be led to the advanced section to
>complete these details.
>
>This time the Vodafone site waits about 10 seconds and reports that it has
>created the account !!! Immediately afterwards the Blackberry receives an
>email confirming this. I send a message to his BT Internet address, and
>after about 15 minutes (the expected delay) the Blackberry receives it.
>
>But Outlook continues to fail with the login error.
>
>This seems to be a fault with the BT Internet POP3 server - but why does
>their website accept the login, and why does it work from the Blackberry?
>And is it simply conincidence that this failed at exactly the time that Nick
>first tried to set up the Blackberry to read his mail from the BT Internet
>account?
>
>Any ideas gratefully received.
>
Possibly (just a guess I don't use BT Internet or have a blackberry)

BT Internet POP3 server only allows one login at a time.

Vodaphone site has logged in, but does not (properly?) log out. Given
that it is repeatedly checking the e-mail account, it may never log out?

BT Internet Webmail/Yahoo use some other mechanism than POP3 (IMAP?) to
get at the mail, so no problems show up.

Clara either allow multiple access, OR time out the connection from
Vodaphone when there is no activity.

Try access in the BT Internet POP3 server using Telnet, you may get a
more informative error message.


--
Peter R Cook

"ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Monday 08 September 2008 6:43 pm, in MID
> <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
> ((E-Mail Removed)) wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I provide the email address and
>> password. Bear in mind that the login name required when using a POP3
>> client such as Outlook is simply the text before the @ sign -
>
> BTInternet/BTYahoo require the full email address as the POP3 login.
>
> From their online help:

True, the website requires the full email address. Until last Friday
Outlook WOULD NOT work using the full email address, and required simply the
text preceeding the @ sign. But anyway, I tried the full email address in
Outlook but I get the same failure message.

-- Graham J

"ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:uPednbc9vKq-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Monday 08 September 2008 8:01 pm, in MID
> <48c5768d$0$2919$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
> ((E-Mail Removed)) wrote:
>> "ian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> On Monday 08 September 2008 6:43 pm, in MID
>>> <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
>>> ((E-Mail Removed)) wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> I provide the email address and
>>>> password. Bear in mind that the login name required when using a POP3
>>>> client such as Outlook is simply the text before the @ sign -
>>>
>>> BTInternet/BTYahoo require the full email address as the POP3 login.
>>>
>>> From their online help:
>>
>> True, the website requires the full email address.
>
> Yup
>
>> Until last Friday
>> Outlook WOULD NOT work using the full email address, and required simply
>> the
>> text preceeding the @ sign.
>
> Strange - it's the other way around for me.
>
>> But anyway, I tried the full email address in
>> Outlook but I get the same failure message.
>
> What server's configured ? mail.btinternet.com or something else ?
> (mail.btopenworld.com has been playing up the last couple of days,
> apparently)

The POP3 server is mail.btinternet.com

Currently I can't find anything that tells me it should be anything else.

--
Graham J

"Invalid" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8bxz+(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT internet.

[snip]

> Possibly (just a guess I don't use BT Internet or have a blackberry)
>
> BT Internet POP3 server only allows one login at a time.
>
> Vodaphone site has logged in, but does not (properly?) log out. Given that
> it is repeatedly checking the e-mail account, it may never log out?
>
> BT Internet Webmail/Yahoo use some other mechanism than POP3 (IMAP?) to
> get at the mail, so no problems show up.
>
> Clara either allow multiple access, OR time out the connection from
> Vodaphone when there is no activity.
>
> Try access in the BT Internet POP3 server using Telnet, you may get a more
> informative error message.

telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop801.mail.ird.yahoo.com
user <name>
+OK password required.
pass <password>
-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com

It has been suggested that the full email address is required to log into
the POP3 server - so I try:

telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop804.mail.ird.yahoo.com
user <name>@btinternet.com
+OK password required.
pass <password>
-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com

The issue of whether the full email address is required is contentious;
until last Friday only the <name> component was required. Testing today
shows neither the partial nor full email address will work.

So far as I understand the Blackberry server operated by Vodafone tries at
regular intervals - perhaps every 15 minutes - is this enough to confuse the
BT internet mail server?

--
Graham J

Graham J wrote:
> Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT
> internet. He also has a POP3 account with Clara.
>
> On Friday he got himself a Blackberry. Using the website at
> http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ he first created an account for
> himself. He can send and receive email from this account using the
> Blackberry. But of course he wants to receive email from his Clara
> account and from his BT Internet account.
>
>
Snipped
>
> But Outlook continues to fail with the login error.
>
> This seems to be a fault with the BT Internet POP3 server - but why
> does their website accept the login, and why does it work from the
> Blackberry? And is it simply conincidence that this failed at exactly
> the time that Nick first tried to set up the Blackberry to read his
> mail from the BT Internet account?
>
> Any ideas gratefully received.


Are you getting a message like this:

As part of ongoing security enhancements to BT Yahoo! email, we are in the
process of upgrading our security to prevent emails from being sent from
client applications (Microsoft Outlook, Thunderbird, etc) when the "From"
email address is not either a BT Yahoo! email address or a validated
alternative email address. If you see an error 553 message, you will need to
validate the email address from which you wish to send. Step by step
instructions can be found at http://www.btyahoo.com/verify/

If so, just follow the link - if not, forget it!

In message <48c58b8b$0$2918$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>"Invalid" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:8bxz+(E-Mail Removed)...
>> In message <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT internet.
>
>[snip]
>
>> Possibly (just a guess I don't use BT Internet or have a blackberry)
>>
>> BT Internet POP3 server only allows one login at a time.
>>
>> Vodaphone site has logged in, but does not (properly?) log out. Given that
>> it is repeatedly checking the e-mail account, it may never log out?
>>
>> BT Internet Webmail/Yahoo use some other mechanism than POP3 (IMAP?) to
>> get at the mail, so no problems show up.
>>
>> Clara either allow multiple access, OR time out the connection from
>> Vodaphone when there is no activity.
>>
>> Try access in the BT Internet POP3 server using Telnet, you may get a more
>> informative error message.
>
>telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
>+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop801.mail.ird.yahoo.com
>user <name>
>+OK password required.
>pass <password>
>-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>It has been suggested that the full email address is required to log into
>the POP3 server - so I try:
>
>telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
>+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop804.mail.ird.yahoo.com
>user <name>@btinternet.com
>+OK password required.
>pass <password>
>-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>The issue of whether the full email address is required is contentious;
>until last Friday only the <name> component was required. Testing today
>shows neither the partial nor full email address will work.
>
>So far as I understand the Blackberry server operated by Vodafone tries at
>regular intervals - perhaps every 15 minutes - is this enough to confuse the
>BT internet mail server?
>
I don't know. But if the Blackberry server doesn't log-off when it has
finished, and the BT Internet server has a longer time-out than that, it
could!

The fact that it worked "In the morning" suggests that perhaps if the
Blackberry is switched off (overnight?), the Vodafone server stops
polling every 15 minutes. Three is certainly a suggestion on the
Blackberry site that the polling frequency varies with usage.

You might try switching the Blackberry off for a couple of hours and see
if Outlook can grab the server then.

But as I said originally I am only guessing.

A quick Google got me to a Vodafone forum, nothing really useful, but
a hint that Yahoo mail has a non standard linkage to Vodafone/Blackberry

"QUOTE (Tom_Vodafone @ Apr 14 2008, 02:03 PM) *
If you use the Blackberry email address that comes with the account
(it'll be (E-Mail Removed)) then your emails come
through immediately. The reason there's a delay with other email
providers is as you've correctly stated, Blackberry checks every 15
minutes on average to see if you have new mail. If your account's used a
lot, Blackberry will check more frequently, but it still won't be as
'real-time' as using the supplied Blackberry email address.

As an additional to this, Gmail and Yahoo accounts are an exception to
this rule, as they each have special agreements and processes in place
especially for Blackberry. Emails sent to a GMail or Yahoo address will
also arrive immediately, without the 15 minute polling time."

The fact that the original set-up didn't take you to the advanced page
suggests this is happening, but where you go from there??
--
Invalid

"Unbeliever" <cb@.....tts.com> wrote in message
news:ga4548$nus$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Graham J wrote:
>> Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT
>> internet. He also has a POP3 account with Clara.
>>
>> On Friday he got himself a Blackberry. Using the website at
>> http://mobileemail.vodafone.net/ he first created an account for
>> himself. He can send and receive email from this account using the
>> Blackberry. But of course he wants to receive email from his Clara
>> account and from his BT Internet account.
>>
>>
> Snipped
>>
>> But Outlook continues to fail with the login error.
>>
>> This seems to be a fault with the BT Internet POP3 server - but why
>> does their website accept the login, and why does it work from the
>> Blackberry? And is it simply conincidence that this failed at exactly
>> the time that Nick first tried to set up the Blackberry to read his
>> mail from the BT Internet account?
>>
>> Any ideas gratefully received.
>
>
> Are you getting a message like this:
>
> As part of ongoing security enhancements to BT Yahoo! email, we are in the
> process of upgrading our security to prevent emails from being sent from
> client applications (Microsoft Outlook, Thunderbird, etc) when the "From"
> email address is not either a BT Yahoo! email address or a validated
> alternative email address. If you see an error 553 message, you will need
> to validate the email address from which you wish to send. Step by step
> instructions can be found at http://www.btyahoo.com/verify/
>
> If so, just follow the link - if not, forget it!


No !!!

What you refer to concerns outgoing messages.

--
Graham J

"Invalid" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <48c58b8b$0$2918$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>
>>"Invalid" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:8bxz+(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> In message <48c5643d$0$2917$(E-Mail Removed)>, Graham J
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>>Nick uses Outlook to collect email from his POP3 account with BT
>>>>internet.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> Possibly (just a guess I don't use BT Internet or have a blackberry)
>>>
>>> BT Internet POP3 server only allows one login at a time.
>>>
>>> Vodaphone site has logged in, but does not (properly?) log out. Given
>>> that
>>> it is repeatedly checking the e-mail account, it may never log out?
>>>
>>> BT Internet Webmail/Yahoo use some other mechanism than POP3 (IMAP?) to
>>> get at the mail, so no problems show up.
>>>
>>> Clara either allow multiple access, OR time out the connection from
>>> Vodaphone when there is no activity.
>>>
>>> Try access in the BT Internet POP3 server using Telnet, you may get a
>>> more
>>> informative error message.
>>
>>telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
>>+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop801.mail.ird.yahoo.com
>>user <name>
>>+OK password required.
>>pass <password>
>>-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>It has been suggested that the full email address is required to log into
>>the POP3 server - so I try:
>>
>>telnet mail.btinternet.com 110
>>+OK hello from popgate 2.40 on pop804.mail.ird.yahoo.com
>>user <name>@btinternet.com
>>+OK password required.
>>pass <password>
>>-ERR [AUTH] Error logging in. Please visit http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>The issue of whether the full email address is required is contentious;
>>until last Friday only the <name> component was required. Testing today
>>shows neither the partial nor full email address will work.
>>
>>So far as I understand the Blackberry server operated by Vodafone tries at
>>regular intervals - perhaps every 15 minutes - is this enough to confuse
>>the
>>BT internet mail server?
>>
> I don't know. But if the Blackberry server doesn't log-off when it has
> finished, and the BT Internet server has a longer time-out than that, it
> could!
>
> The fact that it worked "In the morning" suggests that perhaps if the
> Blackberry is switched off (overnight?), the Vodafone server stops polling
> every 15 minutes. Three is certainly a suggestion on the Blackberry site
> that the polling frequency varies with usage.
>
> You might try switching the Blackberry off for a couple of hours and see
> if Outlook can grab the server then.
>
> But as I said originally I am only guessing.
>
> A quick Google got me to a Vodafone forum, nothing really useful, but a
> hint that Yahoo mail has a non standard linkage to Vodafone/Blackberry
>
> "QUOTE (Tom_Vodafone @ Apr 14 2008, 02:03 PM) *
> If you use the Blackberry email address that comes with the account (it'll
> be (E-Mail Removed)) then your emails come through
> immediately. The reason there's a delay with other email providers is as
> you've correctly stated, Blackberry checks every 15 minutes on average to
> see if you have new mail. If your account's used a lot, Blackberry will
> check more frequently, but it still won't be as 'real-time' as using the
> supplied Blackberry email address.
>
> As an additional to this, Gmail and Yahoo accounts are an exception to
> this rule, as they each have special agreements and processes in place
> especially for Blackberry. Emails sent to a GMail or Yahoo address will
> also arrive immediately, without the 15 minute polling time."
>
> The fact that the original set-up didn't take you to the advanced page
> suggests this is happening, but where you go from there??

I think you are right - the Blackberry server polls mail.btinternet.com too
frequently.

The initial attempt last Friday using the Vodafone website to set up the
BTInternet account failed - as did all the subsequent tries. However I
think some aspect of it succeeded. Yesterday (in order to see the exact
wording of the failure message) I tried again - and succeeded. Mail for the
BTInternet address was then delivered correctly to the Blackberry and was
held on the BT server where I could read it using webmail.

I then used the Vodafone management page to delete the BTInternet account.
I was still unable to use Outlook to read the mail from the BTInternet
account, and telnet gave the same errors as above.

However, this morning, Outlook can get the email OK. I tried the login name
as both the full email address:
<name>@btinternet.com
and only the text before the @ sign
<name>
- both work.

Later I will try setting up the account again. I will let you all know
whether it fails in the same way.

--
Graham J

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:54:14 +0100, Graham J wrote:

> I think you are right - the Blackberry server polls mail.btinternet.com
> too frequently.

Have you tried using IMAP? It may permit simultaneous logins.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
16:34:25 up 2 days, 46 min, 2 users, load average: 0.10, 0.06, 0.01
They call me titless because I have no tits