Bit off topic: - Electricity meters

I've been trying to pindown the source of some interference on my ADSL
connection [RFI]. It appears to be coming from my meter cupboard, very
strong signal, a kind of rhythmic pulse, every 1 second. I can pick it
up on MW radio at various frequencies. It seems to be centred on the
actual meter, economy 7 type with 2 readings.

Who do I actually contact about getting it replaced/checked? British
Gas who I pay my bills to, or NEDL who operate the electric around
here. I could do with getting it changed to a standard meter anyway as
we don't have night storage heaters anymore.

Thanks
--
Regards
James

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 15:36:29 -0000, James <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've been trying to pindown the source of some interference on my ADSL
>connection [RFI]. It appears to be coming from my meter cupboard, very
>strong signal, a kind of rhythmic pulse, every 1 second. I can pick it
>up on MW radio at various frequencies. It seems to be centred on the
>actual meter, economy 7 type with 2 readings.
>
>Who do I actually contact about getting it replaced/checked? British
>Gas who I pay my bills to, or NEDL who operate the electric around
>here. I could do with getting it changed to a standard meter anyway as
>we don't have night storage heaters anymore.
>
>Thanks

Contact British Gas as they will also need to change your tariff. You
should find that your daytime electricity is cheaper.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Digby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 15:36:29 -0000, James <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> I've been trying to pindown the source of some interference on my
>> ADSL connection [RFI]. It appears to be coming from my meter
>> cupboard, very strong signal, a kind of rhythmic pulse, every 1
>> second. I can pick it up on MW radio at various frequencies. It
>> seems to be centred on the actual meter, economy 7 type with 2
>> readings.
>>
>> Who do I actually contact about getting it replaced/checked? British
>> Gas who I pay my bills to, or NEDL who operate the electric around
>> here. I could do with getting it changed to a standard meter anyway
>> as we don't have night storage heaters anymore.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Contact British Gas as they will also need to change your tariff. You
> should find that your daytime electricity is cheaper.

True. Not sure that they will automatically get the meter changed, though -
they might just ignore the off-peak part.

To the OP: What effect is this 'interference' having on your BB connection?
Is there any way you can test the connection with all mains power switched
off? [You'd either need a generator, or a battery powered laptop - in which
case you'd need to power a router (if used) from a battery or inverter].
--
Cheers,
Roger
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In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...


> Contact British Gas as they will also need to change your tariff. You
> should find that your daytime electricity is cheaper.

Thanks, I rang them and...

He was surprised I wanted to change over to standard, stating it would
be better to leave it as is. Even though the only thing powered
overnight is the fridge/freezer and a small chest freezer, no heating
etc.

I asked about having it inspected for faults, they said if it proves to
be faulty there is a £65.00 charge.


--
Regards
James

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Digby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


> To the OP: What effect is this 'interference' having on your BB connection?
> Is there any way you can test the connection with all mains power switched
> off? [You'd either need a generator, or a battery powered laptop - in which
> case you'd need to power a router (if used) from a battery or inverter].

Basically my sync speeds have fallen quite a lot, very occasionally
going back to how it used to be for a few hours then snapping back
down. We are talking about a sudden increase/decrease of 8dB in noise
margin. I've been through all the usual tricks, sanitized my end of
things with no resulting improvement, other than a minor improvement
with a new router.

I really need yo get a laptop to test also. If i switch off the mains
switch at the master circuit breaker to remove all the house hold
appliances, I can still hear this noise on the radio, it is very strong
and is coming from the meter cupboard, if I put the radio next to the
telephone incoming pair this same signal is very strong.

--
Regards
James

On 18-Nov-2006, James <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If i switch off the mains
> switch at the master circuit breaker to remove all the house hold
> appliances, I can still hear this noise on the radio, it is very strong
> and is coming from the meter cupboard, if I put the radio next to the
> telephone incoming pair this same signal is very strong.

It may be coming from outside the house, the meter and phone line
are just radiating it, in which case changing the meter would not
alter the situation. It would be unusual for the signal to extend
throughout the RF spectrum up to GHz although the phone pair
noise may be killing your BB s/n ratio.
Quite often the local MV ringmain that feeds the sub-stations
runs for considerable distance parallel to the ducts carrying the
local phone cables. The feed to sodium and mercury street lights
generates quite a bit of RF noise, so do you have the problem
during the day, or at particular times?
If it comes and goes I'd suspect an exterior source, meters don't
repair themselves or for that matter generally generate RF
interference.
With a medium/long wave tranny, with directional ferrite aerial,
tuned between stations, you could go outside and see what
it picks up, if there is a strong similar signal the directional
ferrite rod aerial, triangulated from more than one location
might give you a rough location of the source.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...

> It may be coming from outside the house, the meter and phone line
> are just radiating it, in which case changing the meter would not
> alter the situation. It would be unusual for the signal to extend
> throughout the RF spectrum up to GHz although the phone pair
> noise may be killing your BB s/n ratio.

An external source was my conclusion, ie. it is being radiated via
internal wiring, however I cannot pickup this noise outside after
moving just a 2 or 3 foot away from the house, triangulating the noise
always leads me back to the meter cupboard.. In fact using a mw radio
I can follow the path of the internal electric wiring upstairs to the
airing cupboard where the timer is located for the hot water/gas back
boiler. But switching it off at the mains has no effect, the noise is
still there but definitely stronger at the meter cupboard.

> Quite often the local MV ringmain that feeds the sub-stations
> runs for considerable distance parallel to the ducts carrying the
> local phone cables. The feed to sodium and mercury street lights
> generates quite a bit of RF noise, so do you have the problem
> during the day, or at particular times?

This noise I hear on the radio is present all the time,what I need to
happen is one of the 'clear periods' to occur then I can see if the
noise has gone. a clear period being when my noise margin suddenly
jumps upwards by 8dB, sometimes it lasts for hours or only a few
minutes, like something being switched off/on.

The noise I can pickup from the meter cupboard might be a red herring,
I just a need a clear period to occur then I can put that to rest.

There is no specific time or day when the NM jumps up, but it happens
around five-to the hour i.e 08.57 09:57 21:57 etc.. and for some
strange reason more often at night at weekends, only recently have I
seen it happen during the week, weds am and thurs am.

Very odd, I've been through loopholes with Zen tech but they are not
interested, I was hoping maybe the BT SFI team might get involved.

I use DMT and routerstats to monitor my connection and capture logs and
pretty graphs

I just can't figure out if the noise is being inducted onto the
phonewire/mains from outside or is some kind of electrical interference
from the meter, which I can't switch off.

--
Regards
James

On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 15:36:29 -0000, James <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've been trying to pindown the source of some interference on my ADSL
>connection [RFI]. It appears to be coming from my meter cupboard, very
>strong signal, a kind of rhythmic pulse, every 1 second.

Strange, I had a similar problem recently with a 2.4ghz video sender,
worked fine for ages then suddenly TV unwatchable most of the time due
to interference.

Problem lasted for months but now appears ok again.

Geoff Lane

On 18-Nov-2006, James <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> An external source was my conclusion, ie. it is being radiated via
> internal wiring, however I cannot pickup this noise outside after
> moving just a 2 or 3 foot away from the house, triangulating the noise
> always leads me back to the meter cupboard..

Could still be coming from outside, once the cables go underground
the RF is shielded but there can still be inductive pickup, particularly
if say the phone 100 or whatever pairs runs along a main road in
a parallel duct a foot from a MV ringmain.
There are increasing numbers of domestic devices with switch-mode
power supplies, as well as fluorescent and low-energy bulbs that
extinguish and re-ignite the discharge as the mains goes through
the zero of the cycle.
I take it you have switched everything off except the router and
computer, and the noise persists, without changing in level, then switched
the computer and router off whilst checking with the tranny?.
Some computer problems have originated from a piece of the computers
equipment itself, like a duff monitor, or ancillary devices switch-mode
PSU.
If it were the meter I'd expect the level of interference to change
with load. But then there isn't anything in conventional meters
that would generate interference.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...

> I take it you have switched everything off except the router and
> computer, and the noise persists, without changing in level, then switched
> the computer and router off whilst checking with the tranny?.

Absolutely, noise is present on tranny without anything at all switched
on. Noise is still present with only router/pc on but I would say it
appears a bit stronger, it might seem daft but when something
electrical is powered on it seems to amplify the noise i.e it gets
stronger.

I've been to my neighbours either side of me and asked them to switch
their mains off, with no result, noise still there.

I can only think it's coming in on the mains cable and jumping onto the
incoming pair, they are not that far apart, I might see about getting
the master incoming pair/NTE5 socket moved upstairs a bit further away
from the incoming mains. Get the dropwire straight in upstairs and not
down then up There again if they are running parallel in the street
it won't help much I guess.

--
Regards
James