Beyond ADSL?

OK so I live too far from the BT exchange as the cable currently runs
to receive a Broadband service using current technology. What does
the future hold? I have read about xDSL and ADSL2 and various other
technologies that might extend the current range limitations. Can
anyone tell me more about these? Is BT serious about bringing
Broadband to all and will therefore continue to develop new
technologies or will they rest on their laurels once they have
provided ADSL to everyone within the current ~75dBA loss limits?

"Chris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)
> OK so I live too far from the BT exchange as the cable currently runs
> to receive a Broadband service using current technology. What does
> the future hold? I have read about xDSL and ADSL2 and various other
> technologies that might extend the current range limitations. Can
> anyone tell me more about these? Is BT serious about bringing
> Broadband to all and will therefore continue to develop new
> technologies or will they rest on their laurels once they have
> provided ADSL to everyone within the current ~75dBA loss limits?

1. Have you tried applying for 512K ADSL since the 6th September?

2. Since the 6th September, there is no "loss limit" on the 512K ADSL - BT
will enable your line for ADSL regardless of the qualit of your line.

If you then have a problem, BT will send an engineer (free) to try ad fix
it - its only then that they will give up and remove the ADSL.

BT say that with these new procedures, only 0.2% of analogue lines on
enabled exchanges will fail to get ADSL.

3. BT's labs have historically been one of the "leaders" in developing DSL
technology.

ADSL2 will probably make an appearance in some areas soon (from LLU
operators 1st) and BT is looking at deploying ADSL2+ or VSDL in the future
(though that will take some time)

Regards
Sunil

"Chris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> OK so I live too far from the BT exchange as the cable currently runs
> to receive a Broadband service using current technology. What does
> the future hold? I have read about xDSL and ADSL2 and various other
> technologies that might extend the current range limitations. Can
> anyone tell me more about these? Is BT serious about bringing
> Broadband to all and will therefore continue to develop new
> technologies or will they rest on their laurels once they have
> provided ADSL to everyone within the current ~75dBA loss limits?

Have you tried to place an order since the 512 service limits were lifted this
month?

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was speaking after having
tried with the new extended range limits and failed. I am 8.7 Km from
the exchange as the cable runs although only 4.5 as the crow flies.
The engineer did visit and failed to register any DSL signal at all.
He tried the other line that I currently use for modem with the same
result. There are at least 30 properties around me who all get the
same "very unlikely" message from the number checker so, frankly, I do
not believe the BT hype about 0.2% will not be able to get etc. It
could be that someone has drawn a radius around each exchange and
ignored actual cable routings? I do not believe that 99.?% of the
population lives within a 75dBA line loss range that equates to about
7-8Km. I know that BT has achieved ASDSL successfully on some much
longer lines but I guess these are new cables without lots of joins
etc.?
Alas I am destined to remain without Broadband for some time to come!

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:40:38 +0000 (UTC), "Beck"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Chris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> OK so I live too far from the BT exchange as the cable currently runs
>> to receive a Broadband service using current technology. What does
>> the future hold? I have read about xDSL and ADSL2 and various other
>> technologies that might extend the current range limitations. Can
>> anyone tell me more about these? Is BT serious about bringing
>> Broadband to all and will therefore continue to develop new
>> technologies or will they rest on their laurels once they have
>> provided ADSL to everyone within the current ~75dBA loss limits?
>
>Have you tried to place an order since the 512 service limits were lifted this
>month?
>

"Chris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was speaking after having
> tried with the new extended range limits and failed. I am 8.7 Km from
> the exchange as the cable runs although only 4.5 as the crow flies.
> The engineer did visit and failed to register any DSL signal at all.
> He tried the other line that I currently use for modem with the same
> result. There are at least 30 properties around me who all get the
> same "very unlikely" message from the number checker so, frankly, I do
> not believe the BT hype about 0.2% will not be able to get etc. It
> could be that someone has drawn a radius around each exchange and
> ignored actual cable routings? I do not believe that 99.?% of the
> population lives within a 75dBA line loss range that equates to about
> 7-8Km. I know that BT has achieved ASDSL successfully on some much
> longer lines but I guess these are new cables without lots of joins
> etc.?
> Alas I am destined to remain without Broadband for some time to come!

Ah I see now, I think you posted about this problem the other day? Sorry to hear
the engineer failed to get the line working.
As mentioned before, there is the possibility of the new adsl2+ but I think it
is in very early stages and could be a few years yet.
Also have you considered wireless broadband? setup costs canbe high, but when
you are sharing it with X amount of neighbours, then it may not be too bad.

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:43:26 +0100, Chris
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> There are at least 30 properties around me who all get the
>same "very unlikely" message from the number checker so, frankly, I do
>not believe the BT hype about 0.2% will not be able to get etc.

I do. Why should they "hype" it. That was based on the results of
testing without limits.

They have clearly been over-cautious all along so far, since I don't
think they have changed the equipment in their exchanges since the
limit was 55dB.


> It
>could be that someone has drawn a radius around each exchange and
>ignored actual cable routings?

Unlikely. BT know what lengths their subscriber lines are, and know
roughly how many of them are going to be beyond what they can
successfully connect.

> I do not believe that 99.?% of the
>population lives within a 75dBA line loss range that equates to about
>7-8Km.

Frankly, I am very surprised that as many as 1 in 500 people live more
than 7-8Km from their exchange. Most of those will be in very rural
areas, where there is more than 10 miles between villages.

Remember, 94% lived within the old 60dB limits, and they reckon that
75dB (which isn't a fixed limits anyhow) actually equates, on average,
to around 10Km.

>I know that BT has achieved ASDSL successfully on some much
>longer lines but I guess these are new cables without lots of joins
>etc.?

I would imagine so.

>Alas I am destined to remain without Broadband for some time to come!

Unfortunately, it looks that way.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Friends come and go, enemies accumulate.

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
>
> Frankly, I am very surprised that as many as 1 in 500 people live more
> than 7-8Km from their exchange. Most of those will be in very rural
> areas, where there is more than 10 miles between villages.
>

I suspect that many of them are in fact on the fringes of medium-sized
towns, which have one centrally-located exchange. I live on the edge
of Basingstoke - I don't know exactly how far from the exchange but
7-8km sounds about right (line attenuation 60 dB.) My initial
application failed, I re-applied when the first extended-reach change
happened and failed again, and I applied on Sept 6th for 1MB which
also failed. (I thought it might - but with no price difference it was
worth a go.) So I've applied again for 512MB and am waiting to hear.

There are around 500 properties around me in the same boat - if they
are all part of the 1 in 500, they must offset nearly a quarter of a
million properties which can get BB - and that's just one estate on
the outskirts of one town.

Interestingly there is a broadband-enabled exchange in a village about
3km from us, but the efforts BT is going to to roll out BB to some of
the last few do not - as far as I can establish - include bulk
switching of areas between exchanges. I can understand this would not
be a cost-effective approach for single subscribers, but for several
hundred large, expensive properties in a town rich with IT companies
you'd hope someone had looked at the mathematics.

Steve Adams

On 27 Sep 2004 05:38:22 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Steve Adams) wrote:

>Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>. ..
>>
>> Frankly, I am very surprised that as many as 1 in 500 people live more
>> than 7-8Km from their exchange. Most of those will be in very rural
>> areas, where there is more than 10 miles between villages.
>>
>
>I suspect that many of them are in fact on the fringes of medium-sized
>towns, which have one centrally-located exchange. I live on the edge
>of Basingstoke -

I would not think there is ANY of Basingstoke that is much more than
about 5-6Km from any other part. Depending, of course, on what you
define as "Basingstoke".

> I don't know exactly how far from the exchange but
>7-8km sounds about right (line attenuation 60 dB.) My initial
>application failed, I re-applied when the first extended-reach change
>happened and failed again, and I applied on Sept 6th for 1MB which
>also failed. (I thought it might - but with no price difference it was
>worth a go.) So I've applied again for 512MB and am waiting to hear.
>
>There are around 500 properties around me in the same boat - if they
>are all part of the 1 in 500,

They aren't. They (and you) are in the 1 in 25 who could not get it
before the 6th of this month. But almost certainly not in the 1 in 500
who can still not get it.

You will almost certainly be able to get 512K, as will they. And a
line attenuation of 60dB sounds more like about 6km than 7-8.

I am well outside the town of Merthyr Tydfil, about 2.5 miles as the
crow flies from the exchange (6.5km line length), but with an
attenuation of 61dB, have been able to get BB since the 6th, and it is
working just fine.



--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Close only counts in horseshoes and nuclear bombs!

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

"Alex Heney" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

> They aren't. They (and you) are in the 1 in 25 who could not get it
> before the 6th of this month. But almost certainly not in the 1 in 500
> who can still not get it.
>
> You will almost certainly be able to get 512K, as will they. And a
> line attenuation of 60dB sounds more like about 6km than 7-8.

That sounds about right. The figures BT gave me were 6.5km from exchange with a
line of 65db. Interestingly though, now I have been connected, my router states
my line is around 57-58db

In article <cjbos0$acp$(E-Mail Removed)>, Beck
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>"Alex Heney" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
>> They aren't. They (and you) are in the 1 in 25 who could not get it
>> before the 6th of this month. But almost certainly not in the 1 in 500
>> who can still not get it.

Your topology is too simple perhaps?
There are many places eg down by the Severn Estuary, within easy
commuting of say Bristol, which are far from their exchange, and NOT
near the next one (because the oggin is in the way).
Can't think _why_ anyone should pay half a million to live down there
:-))
--
robert w hall