Best Way for 2 Sites 200 feet line-of-sight??

Anyone, please.

I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites are
located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO intervening
obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of gadgets and any
outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the best option?
What's a reasonable list of options?

A fancy new wireless router with extended range like a Belkin Pre N seems an
option to catch both sites with one gadget? Only B & G modes are needed.
However if such doesn't reach both sites reliably then what's plan B? It's
my understand that recent routers like the Belkin Pre N require that the
three antennas are like a phased array such that one can't disconnect one
antenna and put a directional high gain antenna there?? So is there an
optimal choice for a single B/G router with a few hardwired LAN ports that
could have one antenna used for local WiFi and the second antenna removed
and cabled to a high gain directional antenna?

What overall are the reasonable options to attain this goal that may include
step-wise experiments that don't require throwing out the elements of
previous lack of success?

Side question: I guess that the '802.11N' standard has now been formally
agreed to. Does anyone know how that came out with respect to various mfg.
'pre N' implementations? It was speculated that some "pre N" products might
work with a simple firmware upgrade for the final 802.11N standard. Anyone
know how this has played out?

Thanks.

"fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
>office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites are
>located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO intervening
>obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of gadgets and any
>outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the best option?
>What's a reasonable list of options?

200 feet? A good MIMO router at one end and an AP at the other should work with
no problem. Fallback is to locate the router and AP near a window in both
buildings, or in the attic (if there is one). Shoot, I get 10-12 neighbors in my
upstairs home office some whom are over 1000 feet away.

"fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:OKB5f.158769$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Anyone, please.
>
> I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
> office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites are
> located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO intervening
> obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of gadgets and any
> outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the best option?
> What's a reasonable list of options?
>
> A fancy new wireless router with extended range like a Belkin Pre N seems
> an option to catch both sites with one gadget? Only B & G modes are
> needed. However if such doesn't reach both sites reliably then what's plan
> B? It's my understand that recent routers like the Belkin Pre N require
> that the three antennas are like a phased array such that one can't
> disconnect one antenna and put a directional high gain antenna there??
> So is there an optimal choice for a single B/G router with a few hardwired
> LAN ports that could have one antenna used for local WiFi and the second
> antenna removed and cabled to a high gain directional antenna?
>
> What overall are the reasonable options to attain this goal that may
> include step-wise experiments that don't require throwing out the elements
> of previous lack of success?
>
> Side question: I guess that the '802.11N' standard has now been formally
> agreed to. Does anyone know how that came out with respect to various
> mfg. 'pre N' implementations? It was speculated that some "pre N"
> products might work with a simple firmware upgrade for the final 802.11N
> standard. Anyone know how this has played out?
>
> Thanks.
Directional antennas are the way to go. Routers use two antennas (not
simultaneously) by 'choosing' the one with the best signal. If the
diversity system gives you any problem (it shouldn't), then replace the
remaining omnidirectional with a 50 ohm dummy load.

The higher the gain (on both ends), the better -- not only will it improve
signal quality, but it will reduce interference to and from others. High
gain antennas won't compare with WPA as a security measure, but it's less
likely someone in your general vicinity will pick up your signal unless they
are directly in line with your antennas.

Try using a wireless router or access point on one end and a
wireless-Ethernet adapter (wireless client) on the other. The alternative
is to use two access points that are capable of 'bridge' mode. If you do it
that way, use identical units on both ends and make sure the 'bridge' mode
means that it bridges two wired networks wirelessly.

Don W.

"Don W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:HqqdnY9OtMValMreRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:OKB5f.158769$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Anyone, please.
>>
>> I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
>> office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites
>> are located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO
>> intervening obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of
>> gadgets and any outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the
>> best option? What's a reasonable list of options?
>>
>> A fancy new wireless router with extended range like a Belkin Pre N seems
>> an option to catch both sites with one gadget? Only B & G modes are
>> needed. However if such doesn't reach both sites reliably then what's
>> plan B? It's my understand that recent routers like the Belkin Pre N
>> require that the three antennas are like a phased array such that one
>> can't disconnect one antenna and put a directional high gain antenna
>> there?? So is there an optimal choice for a single B/G router with a few
>> hardwired LAN ports that could have one antenna used for local WiFi and
>> the second antenna removed and cabled to a high gain directional antenna?
>>
>> What overall are the reasonable options to attain this goal that may
>> include step-wise experiments that don't require throwing out the
>> elements of previous lack of success?
>>
>> Side question: I guess that the '802.11N' standard has now been formally
>> agreed to. Does anyone know how that came out with respect to various
>> mfg. 'pre N' implementations? It was speculated that some "pre N"
>> products might work with a simple firmware upgrade for the final 802.11N
>> standard. Anyone know how this has played out?
>>
>> Thanks.
> Directional antennas are the way to go. Routers use two antennas (not
> simultaneously) by 'choosing' the one with the best signal.


Not true for the lastest technology like the thre antenna Belkin Pre N
products.

> If the diversity system gives you any problem (it shouldn't), then replace
> the remaining omnidirectional with a 50 ohm dummy load.
>
> The higher the gain (on both ends), the better -- not only will it improve
> signal quality, but it will reduce interference to and from others. High
> gain antennas won't compare with WPA as a security measure, but it's less
> likely someone in your general vicinity will pick up your signal unless
> they are directly in line with your antennas.
>
> Try using a wireless router or access point on one end and a
> wireless-Ethernet adapter (wireless client) on the other. The alternative
> is to use two access points that are capable of 'bridge' mode.


Can you give an example of a specific product that runs in this 'bridge'
mode?

> If you do it that way, use identical units on both ends and make sure the
> 'bridge' mode means that it bridges two wired networks wirelessly.

"fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:seE5f.464803$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Don W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:HqqdnY9OtMValMreRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:OKB5f.158769$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Anyone, please.
>>>
>>> I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
>>> office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites
>>> are located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO
>>> intervening obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of
>>> gadgets and any outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the
>>> best option? What's a reasonable list of options?
>>>
>>> A fancy new wireless router with extended range like a Belkin Pre N
>>> seems an option to catch both sites with one gadget? Only B & G modes
>>> are needed. However if such doesn't reach both sites reliably then
>>> what's plan B? It's my understand that recent routers like the Belkin
>>> Pre N require that the three antennas are like a phased array such that
>>> one can't disconnect one antenna and put a directional high gain antenna
>>> there?? So is there an optimal choice for a single B/G router with a few
>>> hardwired LAN ports that could have one antenna used for local WiFi and
>>> the second antenna removed and cabled to a high gain directional
>>> antenna?
>>>
>>> What overall are the reasonable options to attain this goal that may
>>> include step-wise experiments that don't require throwing out the
>>> elements of previous lack of success?
>>>
>>> Side question: I guess that the '802.11N' standard has now been
>>> formally agreed to. Does anyone know how that came out with respect to
>>> various mfg. 'pre N' implementations? It was speculated that some "pre
>>> N" products might work with a simple firmware upgrade for the final
>>> 802.11N standard. Anyone know how this has played out?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>> Directional antennas are the way to go. Routers use two antennas (not
>> simultaneously) by 'choosing' the one with the best signal.
>
>
> Not true for the lastest technology like the thre antenna Belkin Pre N
> products.
>
>> If the diversity system gives you any problem (it shouldn't), then
>> replace the remaining omnidirectional with a 50 ohm dummy load.
>>
>> The higher the gain (on both ends), the better -- not only will it
>> improve signal quality, but it will reduce interference to and from
>> others. High gain antennas won't compare with WPA as a security measure,
>> but it's less likely someone in your general vicinity will pick up your
>> signal unless they are directly in line with your antennas.
>>
>> Try using a wireless router or access point on one end and a
>> wireless-Ethernet adapter (wireless client) on the other. The
>> alternative is to use two access points that are capable of 'bridge'
>> mode.
>
>
> Can you give an example of a specific product that runs in this 'bridge'
> mode?
>
>> If you do it that way, use identical units on both ends and make sure the
>> 'bridge' mode means that it bridges two wired networks wirelessly.
>
http://www.planet.com.tw/product/pro...295&menu_id=14
http://www.planet.com.tw/product/pro...315&menu_id=14
http://www.idreus.com/?page=product&action=view&id=190
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E55330C

Looks like the favorite is the Planet WAP-4000

I still like the wireless Ethernet client:
http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/nemewietbrac.html
http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/wge111nar.html
http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/wge101nar.html

Don W.

Just out of interest - is Netgear rebranded D-Link for marketing
purposes or is it an entirely diffirent brand on its own ?

Don W wrote:
> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:seE5f.464803$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > "Don W" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:HqqdnY9OtMValMreRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:OKB5f.158769$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>> Anyone, please.
> >>>
> >>> I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
> >>> office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites
> >>> are located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO
> >>> intervening obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of
> >>> gadgets and any outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the
> >>> best option? What's a reasonable list of options?
> >>>
> >>> A fancy new wireless router with extended range like a Belkin Pre N
> >>> seems an option to catch both sites with one gadget? Only B & G modes
> >>> are needed. However if such doesn't reach both sites reliably then
> >>> what's plan B? It's my understand that recent routers like the Belkin
> >>> Pre N require that the three antennas are like a phased array such that
> >>> one can't disconnect one antenna and put a directional high gain antenna
> >>> there?? So is there an optimal choice for a single B/G router with a few
> >>> hardwired LAN ports that could have one antenna used for local WiFi and
> >>> the second antenna removed and cabled to a high gain directional
> >>> antenna?
> >>>
> >>> What overall are the reasonable options to attain this goal that may
> >>> include step-wise experiments that don't require throwing out the
> >>> elements of previous lack of success?
> >>>
> >>> Side question: I guess that the '802.11N' standard has now been
> >>> formally agreed to. Does anyone know how that came out with respect to
> >>> various mfg. 'pre N' implementations? It was speculated that some "pre
> >>> N" products might work with a simple firmware upgrade for the final
> >>> 802.11N standard. Anyone know how this has played out?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >> Directional antennas are the way to go. Routers use two antennas (not
> >> simultaneously) by 'choosing' the one with the best signal.
> >
> >
> > Not true for the lastest technology like the thre antenna Belkin Pre N
> > products.
> >
> >> If the diversity system gives you any problem (it shouldn't), then
> >> replace the remaining omnidirectional with a 50 ohm dummy load.
> >>
> >> The higher the gain (on both ends), the better -- not only will it
> >> improve signal quality, but it will reduce interference to and from
> >> others. High gain antennas won't compare with WPA as a security measure,
> >> but it's less likely someone in your general vicinity will pick up your
> >> signal unless they are directly in line with your antennas.
> >>
> >> Try using a wireless router or access point on one end and a
> >> wireless-Ethernet adapter (wireless client) on the other. The
> >> alternative is to use two access points that are capable of 'bridge'
> >> mode.
> >
> >
> > Can you give an example of a specific product that runs in this 'bridge'
> > mode?
> >
> >> If you do it that way, use identical units on both ends and make sure the
> >> 'bridge' mode means that it bridges two wired networks wirelessly.
> >
> http://www.planet.com.tw/product/pro...295&menu_id=14
> http://www.planet.com.tw/product/pro...315&menu_id=14
> http://www.idreus.com/?page=product&action=view&id=190
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E55330C
>
> Looks like the favorite is the Planet WAP-4000
>
> I still like the wireless Ethernet client:
> http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/nemewietbrac.html
> http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/wge111nar.html
> http://store.yahoo.com/justdeals/wge101nar.html
>
> Don W.

In alt.internet.wireless Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>>I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
>>office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites are
>>located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO intervening
>>obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of gadgets and any
>>outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the best option?
>>What's a reasonable list of options?

Construction site? Might heavy equipment drive between the two buildings?
Will anything park between the two? Maybe off the end, where the flat side
of a truck would cause reflections? (MIMO would help a lot.)

> 200 feet? A good MIMO router at one end and an AP at the other should
> work with no problem. Fallback is to locate the router and AP near a
> window in both buildings, or in the attic (if there is one). Shoot, I get
> 10-12 neighbors in my upstairs home office some whom are over 1000 feet
> away.

The Netgear MIMO WPN802/824 has seven internal, no external antennas. The
Netgear WPN311 PCI card could have an external (indoor) directional antenna
added, if needed, but the Netgear page claims 500 feet for the 824/311
combination. http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101455.asp

I have used the "Hawking HAI6SDA Directional 6dBi 2.4GHz Antenna" with good
success on a Netgear WG311. The WPN311 looks like it could use the same
antenna.
<http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=122>

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

THANKYOU!

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:dj8blp$tnt$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In alt.internet.wireless Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
>> "fred" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>I have a situation where there's a sales office and a construction back
>>>office. They both need to be on the same WiFi network. The two sites
>>>are
>>>located about 200 feet apart in wood frame structures with NO intervening
>>>obstructions. Trying to minimize cost and the number of gadgets and any
>>>outdoor temporary LAN cabling would be nice. What's the best option?
>>>What's a reasonable list of options?
>
> Construction site? Might heavy equipment drive between the two buildings?
> Will anything park between the two? Maybe off the end, where the flat
> side
> of a truck would cause reflections? (MIMO would help a lot.)
>
>> 200 feet? A good MIMO router at one end and an AP at the other should
>> work with no problem. Fallback is to locate the router and AP near a
>> window in both buildings, or in the attic (if there is one). Shoot, I get
>> 10-12 neighbors in my upstairs home office some whom are over 1000 feet
>> away.
>
> The Netgear MIMO WPN802/824 has seven internal, no external antennas. The
> Netgear WPN311 PCI card could have an external (indoor) directional
> antenna
> added, if needed, but the Netgear page claims 500 feet for the 824/311
> combination. http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101455.asp
>
> I have used the "Hawking HAI6SDA Directional 6dBi 2.4GHz Antenna" with
> good
> success on a Netgear WG311. The WPN311 looks like it could use the same
> antenna.
> <http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/productlist.php?CatID=32&FamID=58&ProdID=122>
>
> --
> ---
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
>

On 20 Oct 2005 03:55:45 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Just out of interest - is Netgear rebranded D-Link for marketing
>purposes or is it an entirely diffirent brand on its own ?

NetGear used to be Zyxel (from Taiwan).

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <(E-Mail Removed)> on Thu, 20 Oct 2005 21:52:05
+0200, Hans-Georg Michna <hans-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 20 Oct 2005 03:55:45 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>>Just out of interest - is Netgear rebranded D-Link for marketing
>>purposes or is it an entirely diffirent brand on its own ?

Entirely different brands.

>NetGear used to be Zyxel (from Taiwan).

NETGEAR licensed only a few ZyXEL routers.
Most NETGEAR products aren't related to ZyXEL.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>