Anyone running a webserver over a satelline BB service?

My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
server...

But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
problem in certain cases.

Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
appreciated.

Presently we have ISDN.


Peter.
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"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
> server...
>
> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
> problem in certain cases.
>
> Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
> appreciated.
>
> Presently we have ISDN.
>
>
> Peter.
> --
> Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail.
> E-mail replies to (E-Mail Removed) but remove the X and the Y.
> Please do NOT copy usenet posts to email - it is NOT necessary.

If you expect any volume of traffic I would not recommend it. I run a small
web server at home, using a BT Satellite Link. Fortunately my exchange is
getting Broadband next month and I have pre-ordered the PlusNet 1mb service!

www.the-holodeck.com is the web server.

"Kimball K Kinnison" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>>
>> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
>> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
>> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
>> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
>> server...
>>
>> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
>> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
>> problem in certain cases.
>>
>> Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Presently we have ISDN.
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>> --
>> Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail.
>> E-mail replies to (E-Mail Removed) but remove the X and the Y.
>> Please do NOT copy usenet posts to email - it is NOT necessary.
>
>If you expect any volume of traffic I would not recommend it. I run a small
>web server at home, using a BT Satellite Link. Fortunately my exchange is
>getting Broadband next month and I have pre-ordered the PlusNet 1mb service!
>
>www.the-holodeck.com is the web server.
>
>
Why would you not recommend it? The site traffic is likely to be no
more than few MB per day. The holodeck site loaded pretty quick.


Peter.
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Peter wrote:

>
> "Kimball K Kinnison" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>>>
>>> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
>>> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
>>> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
>>> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
>>> server...
>>>
>>> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
>>> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
>>> problem in certain cases.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Presently we have ISDN.
>>
>>If you expect any volume of traffic I would not recommend it. I run a
>>small web server at home, using a BT Satellite Link. Fortunately my
>>exchange is getting Broadband next month and I have pre-ordered the
>>PlusNet 1mb service!
>>
>>www.the-holodeck.com is the web server.
>>
>>
> Why would you not recommend it? The site traffic is likely to be no
> more than few MB per day. The holodeck site loaded pretty quick.

The satallite link is one-way is it not?
Your customers may very well be requesting your web pages over the
satallite link but downloading them via your dial-up link.

Your best best is for a system hosted by a web company set up to
VPN to your home system for direct printing.


B

--
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Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
> server...
>
> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
> problem in certain cases.

750ms means that you need around 2-3 seconds to start data flowing.
This is OK, as long as pages are designed sensibly.

Many browsers limit the number of files they will load at once to 4 or
so.
This means that if you put a page with lots of little buttons on it,
with their own pictures, even if they are only a K, they will take forever
to load.

Keep every page to 3 or 4 modest sized graphics, avoid java if possible,
and you should be just fine.

Complex multiple framed pages that change all the frames every click
will be slow.

The ideal is for each click by the user to load at the very most 3-4 files
(images, html, css, ...) and for them not to be too large.

As a ballpark, take http://www.ebay.com/

Doing file- save as -complete on mozilla results in a copy of all the files
used to construct the page.
A total of 207K, which is quite large, though the number of files is
huge, at 57.
For a browser set to download 4 files at a time, I'd guess this will take
around 45 seconds to load, neglecting the speed of the link, and only
taking into account delays.

"Bob { Goddard }" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
message news:bu932p$f7bb0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Peter wrote:
>
> >
> > "Kimball K Kinnison" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >>"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
> >>>
> >>> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
> >>> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
> >>> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
> >>> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
> >>> server...
> >>>
> >>> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
> >>> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
> >>> problem in certain cases.
> >>>
> >>> Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
> >>> appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Presently we have ISDN.
> >>
> >>If you expect any volume of traffic I would not recommend it. I run a
> >>small web server at home, using a BT Satellite Link. Fortunately my
> >>exchange is getting Broadband next month and I have pre-ordered the
> >>PlusNet 1mb service!
> >>
> >>www.the-holodeck.com is the web server.
> >>
> >>
> > Why would you not recommend it? The site traffic is likely to be no
> > more than few MB per day. The holodeck site loaded pretty quick.
>
> The satallite link is one-way is it not?
> Your customers may very well be requesting your web pages over the
> satallite link but downloading them via your dial-up link.
>
> Your best best is for a system hosted by a web company set up to
> VPN to your home system for direct printing.
>
>
> B
>
> --
> http://www.mailtrap.org.uk/

No BT Satellite is 2 way. However on a good day I get about a 300kbs down
speed and 70kbs upload speed.

Kimball K Kinnison wrote:

> "Bob { Goddard }" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> message news:bu932p$f7bb0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Peter wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "Kimball K Kinnison" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> >>news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
>> >>>
>> >>> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
>> >>> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
>> >>> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out
>> >>> each customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to
>> >>> the server...
>> >>>
>> >>> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
>> >>> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
>> >>> problem in certain cases.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any suggestions, also who is worth talking to, would be much
>> >>> appreciated.
>> >>>
>> >>> Presently we have ISDN.
>> >>
>> >>If you expect any volume of traffic I would not recommend it. I run a
>> >>small web server at home, using a BT Satellite Link. Fortunately my
>> >>exchange is getting Broadband next month and I have pre-ordered the
>> >>PlusNet 1mb service!
>> >>
>> >>www.the-holodeck.com is the web server.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Why would you not recommend it? The site traffic is likely to be no
>> > more than few MB per day. The holodeck site loaded pretty quick.
>>
>> The satallite link is one-way is it not?
>> Your customers may very well be requesting your web pages over the
>> satallite link but downloading them via your dial-up link.
>>
>> Your best best is for a system hosted by a web company set up to
>> VPN to your home system for direct printing.

> No BT Satellite is 2 way. However on a good day I get about a 300kbs down
> speed and 70kbs upload speed.

I thought it depended on the system. I assume you mean 70KBps, but serving
pages at that speed is not particularly fast.


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http://www.mailtrap.org.uk/

Ian Stirling <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Peter <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>> My business is in a village, with no prospect of BB. I would need a
>> fixed IP too. The reason for wanting own server is for online
>> shopping; I like the security and the ease of simply printing out each
>> customer's order right there and then, on a printer attached to the
>> server...
>>
>> But satellite delays are significant, 750ms for a no-land-link
>> version. BT offer satellite BB on their website and say it can be a
>> problem in certain cases.
>
> 750ms means that you need around 2-3 seconds to start data flowing.
> This is OK, as long as pages are designed sensibly.

Alternatively of course, you put all the http pages on the BT/whoever
webspace, and the https pages on your machine.
So, as long as you keep the checkout page simple, there is no problem.

Bob { Goddard } <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

>Your best best is for a system hosted by a web company set up to
>VPN to your home system for direct printing.

One issue is cost. Presently we pay about 20 quid/month to host the
website (in the USA) and this goes back about 7 years, back to when UK
hosting was hugely expensive. We have about 7-8 domain names, some .de
also, which presently all point back to the same site. If I run an
in-house server we will save this cost. This is also a reason for not
having any part of the site on a normal ISP server because even the
cheapest ISP who will host a business domain is going to charge this
sort of amount.

Next is telecomms cost. We have ISDN and pay the BT rate, with some BT
discount deal, for all calls. I am currently with a pretty reasonable
ISP (Clara) on a 120hr/mo flat rate deal at 15 quid/mo. It is
suprisingly easy to reach this 120 hr limit just regularly checking
emails - with a 200-sec hangup timer on the Cisco 803 router which is
used for internet access. It is very time-consuming to do also; I did
at some time set up an email program to automatically check email say
once an hour but I would really prefer something "instant" because
lots of customers expect to be able to hit your website with an order
and then phone you to ask if you've got it and is it really going out
today, etc.

Then there is stock control. If you do online sales, and you say
whether something is in stock or not (which we have to) you have to
tell the shopping trolley package what the stock is. So you need a
link the other way for that (if you run it remotely) whereas if the
server is in-house you just run a crude stock control program on that,
and each morning you enter in the stock levels, or whatever (we also
sell a lot of faxed-in orders). We use Sage for accounts (not for
stock control yet) and linking into it for invoice generation would be
dead handy.

Could one set up and tear down a VPN say every hour, in an automated
fashion? No doubt, if you really know your stuff. But nothing beats an
in-house server. Could it all run in a flat rate package? Maybe.

This isn't a big business but we run very professionally (all trade
customers, very fussy) and everything has to work really well. I had
all Java, flash, active-x removed from the website on its last
redesign... the total size size is small though, under 30MB.

Sat BB isn't cheap, about 60/mo+, and I would look to save as much as
possible on everything else if I was going for it.


Peter.
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Peter wrote:

>
> Bob { Goddard } <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>>Your best best is for a system hosted by a web company set up to
>>VPN to your home system for direct printing.
>
> One issue is cost. Presently we pay about 20 quid/month to host the
> website (in the USA) and this goes back about 7 years, back to when UK
> hosting was hugely expensive. We have about 7-8 domain names, some .de
> also, which presently all point back to the same site. If I run an
> in-house server we will save this cost. This is also a reason for not
> having any part of the site on a normal ISP server because even the
> cheapest ISP who will host a business domain is going to charge this
> sort of amount.

www.123-reg.co.uk will host your web site for a minimum of £1.59/month.
Setup web-forwarding and it seems to be substancially cheaper.

> Next is telecomms cost. We have ISDN and pay the BT rate, with some BT
> discount deal, for all calls. I am currently with a pretty reasonable
> ISP (Clara) on a 120hr/mo flat rate deal at 15 quid/mo. It is
> suprisingly easy to reach this 120 hr limit just regularly checking
> emails - with a 200-sec hangup timer on the Cisco 803 router which is
> used for internet access. It is very time-consuming to do also; I did
> at some time set up an email program to automatically check email say
> once an hour but I would really prefer something "instant" because
> lots of customers expect to be able to hit your website with an order
> and then phone you to ask if you've got it and is it really going out
> today, etc.

Go for the always on connection instead. Paying BT and Demon a total
of £38/month may cost more but could work out better for your business.
Total cost at the moment is £40/month

> Then there is stock control. If you do online sales, and you say
> whether something is in stock or not (which we have to) you have to
> tell the shopping trolley package what the stock is. So you need a
> link the other way for that (if you run it remotely) whereas if the
> server is in-house you just run a crude stock control program on that,
> and each morning you enter in the stock levels, or whatever (we also
> sell a lot of faxed-in orders). We use Sage for accounts (not for
> stock control yet) and linking into it for invoice generation would be
> dead handy.

This is point is mute if you have an always on connection.

> Could one set up and tear down a VPN say every hour, in an automated
> fashion? No doubt, if you really know your stuff. But nothing beats an
> in-house server. Could it all run in a flat rate package? Maybe.

This is point is mute if you have an always on connection.

[...]
> Sat BB isn't cheap, about 60/mo+, and I would look to save as much as
> possible on everything else if I was going for it.

After checking the BT web site, the typical upload speed of the
satellite will be 70kbps or 8KBps. This is about the same as an
uncompressed ISDN line. I doubt your customers will continue to
go to your site at these speeds. As for the costs, you have
negelected to say that the setup fees are more than £900.

So for the satellite it costs £60/month with a slow upload speed
that could diminish in bad weather. Looking around for a web
hosting company and an always on ISDN conection costs £40/month.
The satellite option will costs you more money for a poorer
service.


B

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