Anyone care to explain how BT work with Static IP

Hi All,

Most ISP's who issue you with a static IP or range of IP on a N0-NAT
basis would normally have you setup your router with your routers
static IP on the WAN and LAN port and firewall turned off and NAT
disabled on the router.

BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
through this peer address at BT...or something like that..

Anyone know exactly how they work ?

We've had many customers with BT's own routers blowing up recently
only to be told that BT no longer support their own routers and that
the customer needs to upgarde their account or buy their own router.

Well we've has a few custoemers try this....without much sucess..

Seems that with the BT router BT keep it all 'in-house' so you can't
actually tell how they are setting it up. You have to wait overnight
or whatever for the info to be downloaded into the router from BT.

But when I have tried the usual way of setting up a non BT router with
the static IP it never seems to work with a BT business account.

If you set it to use the customers static router IP then the router
won't connect to the gateway.

If you let it pick up an IP dynamically then it picks up a dynamic
peer address..and works on the internet OK...but nothing appears to be
routed through to any of the other static IP's say if you assign the
next IP in the range to a 2nd NIC on a multihomed config on an
Exchange Server.
VPN also won't work to the static IP.

Never have this trouble with any other ISP...only BT ( BT Click, BT
Connect )

Anyone from BT care to explain what's going on ?

Jim.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
> to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
> through this peer address at BT...or something like that..

A friend found exactly the same situation last week. BT router died,
replaced by a Draytek 2600 [1].

Can I get the outgoing traffic to reliably originate from his fixed IP
rather than the BT-assigned WAN DHCP address? Nope.

Bit of a problem when his clients operate incoming VPN security based on IP
address.

His transfer to Zen should go through this week.





[1] If the OP checks the Draytek forums, there are a number of threads on
this exact subject. None of the suggested solutions worked for me.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Most ISP's who issue you with a static IP or range of IP on a N0-NAT
> basis would normally have you setup your router with your routers
> static IP on the WAN and LAN port and firewall turned off and NAT
> disabled on the router.
>
> BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
> to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
> through this peer address at BT...or something like that..
>
> Anyone know exactly how they work ?
>
> We've had many customers with BT's own routers blowing up recently
> only to be told that BT no longer support their own routers and that
> the customer needs to upgarde their account or buy their own router.
>
> Well we've has a few custoemers try this....without much sucess..
>
> Seems that with the BT router BT keep it all 'in-house' so you can't
> actually tell how they are setting it up. You have to wait overnight
> or whatever for the info to be downloaded into the router from BT.
>
> But when I have tried the usual way of setting up a non BT router with
> the static IP it never seems to work with a BT business account.
>
> If you set it to use the customers static router IP then the router
> won't connect to the gateway.
>
> If you let it pick up an IP dynamically then it picks up a dynamic
> peer address..and works on the internet OK...but nothing appears to be
> routed through to any of the other static IP's say if you assign the
> next IP in the range to a 2nd NIC on a multihomed config on an
> Exchange Server.
> VPN also won't work to the static IP.
>
> Never have this trouble with any other ISP...only BT ( BT Click, BT
> Connect )
>
> Anyone from BT care to explain what's going on ?

If they bothered to keep their paperwork it tells you on there what the
gateway IP etc is.

If they have lost it, then it's up to them to jump thru the hoops to get to
the person who can tell them what the range is, what the gateway IP is
etc...

It's not difficult, even I can do it, IF given the correct information..

But you will require a router which will operate in a no NAT situation, many
of the lower end budget (& not so budget) priced ones won't.

"Grant" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> A friend found exactly the same situation last week. BT router died,
> replaced by a Draytek 2600 [1].
>
> Can I get the outgoing traffic to reliably originate from his fixed IP
> rather than the BT-assigned WAN DHCP address? Nope.

In that case it sounds like you are not running "no NAT". Have you
tried assigning one of the fixed IP addresses to the LAN interface of
the router and the rest of the fixed IP address range to the equipment
connected to the LAN?

Graham Murray wrote:
> "Grant" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>
>> A friend found exactly the same situation last week. BT router died,
>> replaced by a Draytek 2600 [1].
>>
>> Can I get the outgoing traffic to reliably originate from his fixed
>> IP rather than the BT-assigned WAN DHCP address? Nope.
>
> In that case it sounds like you are not running "no NAT".

Correct. We don't want to run "no NAT". What we want is for my outbound NAT
traffic to consistently appear to originate from a.b.c.d - the first valid
IP of my friend's /28.

What happens is the traffic will appear to come from a.b.c.d for a few
minutes. Then it will originate from a completely different IP address in
the BT WAN DHCP pool. Then a few minutes later it will originate from
another BT WAN DHCP IP.

From reading the Draytek forums, it seems like a common problem with just
BT.

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:24:51 -0000, "Grant" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>What happens is the traffic will appear to come from a.b.c.d for a few
>minutes. Then it will originate from a completely different IP address in
>the BT WAN DHCP pool. Then a few minutes later it will originate from
>another BT WAN DHCP IP.

the WAN IP is handed over by PPP and with most ISPs this is the fixed
IP address allocated to the router.

Draytek's can cause chaos by randomly using the extra IPs as the
"from" address, but in this case it comes from one of your own IP
range. There's a tick box option to stop it happening, it has the word
"pool" in it from memory.

Is it a simple config error if the IP allocated to the ADSL WAN isn't
the primary fixed IP of the range allocated ?

Phil

On 27 Jan, 17:45, "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
> jdr.sm...@virgin.net wrote:
> > Hi All,
>
> > Most ISP's who issue you with a static IP or range of IP on a N0-NAT
> > basis would normally have you setup your router with your routers
> > static IP on the WAN and LAN port and firewall turned off and NAT
> > disabled on the router.
>
> > BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
> > to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
> > through this peer address at BT...or something like that..
>
> > Anyone know exactly how they work ?
>
> > We've had many customers with BT's own routers blowing up recently
> > only to be told that BT no longer support their own routers and that
> > the customer needs to upgarde their account or buy their own router.
>
> > Well we've has a few custoemers try this....without much sucess..
>
> > Seems that with the BT router BT keep it all 'in-house' so you can't
> > actually tell how they are setting it up. You have to wait overnight
> > or whatever for the info to be downloaded into the router from BT.
>
> > But when I have tried the usual way of setting up a non BT router with
> > the static IP it never seems to work with a BT business account.
>
> > If you set it to use the customers static router IP then the router
> > won't connect to the gateway.
>
> > If you let it pick up an IP dynamically then it picks up a dynamic
> > peer address..and works on the internet OK...but nothing appears to be
> > routed through to any of the other static IP's say if you assign the
> > next IP in the range to a 2nd NIC on a multihomed config on an
> > Exchange Server.
> > VPN also won't work to the static IP.
>
> > Never have this trouble with any other ISP...only BT ( BT Click, BT
> > Connect )
>
> > Anyone from BT care to explain what's going on ?If they bothered to keep their paperwork it tells you on there what the
> gateway IP etc is.
>
> If they have lost it, then it's up to them to jump thru the hoops to get to
> the person who can tell them what the range is, what the gateway IP is
> etc...
>
> It's not difficult, even I can do it, IF given the correct information..
>
> But you will require a router which will operate in a no NAT situation, many
> of the lower end budget (& not so budget) priced ones won't.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

A couple of things.

1.
The little black BT routers (rebadged from
somewhere) blow up if you turn them off
and do not wait for 60 seconds
before turning them on again.
Newer ones did not do this.

2.
I encountered the BT 5 IP range issue recently.
I ended up not actually doing anything however
wondered if it would work if you just assign
a static external address to the router of
one of the 5 IP range. Just ignore the
dynamic address completely.

I did test a BT (ish) single static DSL by assigning
it the wrong address and sending traffic.
The traffic arrived - so PPP was not broken.

BT will convert the line to a single static IP
but there is a cost.

CLerly if you router insists on a dymanic IP
then this won't work.

Hmm...

...still don't seem to have an answer as to what BT are doing and
why....?

Come on, anyone out there from the elusive BT 'Network Team' ?

Jim.



On 28 Jan, 11:38, B...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> On 27 Jan, 17:45, "kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > jdr.sm...@virgin.net wrote:
> > > Hi All,
>
> > > Most ISP's who issue you with a static IP or range of IP on a N0-NAT
> > > basis would normally have you setup your router with your routers
> > > static IP on the WAN and LAN port and firewall turned off and NAT
> > > disabled on the router.
>
> > > BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
> > > to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
> > > through this peer address at BT...or something like that..
>
> > > Anyone know exactly how they work ?
>
> > > We've had many customers with BT's own routers blowing up recently
> > > only to be told that BT no longer support their own routers and that
> > > the customer needs to upgarde their account or buy their own router.
>
> > > Well we've has a few custoemers try this....without much sucess..
>
> > > Seems that with the BT router BT keep it all 'in-house' so you can't
> > > actually tell how they are setting it up. You have to wait overnight
> > > or whatever for the info to be downloaded into the router from BT.
>
> > > But when I have tried the usual way of setting up a non BT router with
> > > the static IP it never seems to work with a BT business account.
>
> > > If you set it to use the customers static router IP then the router
> > > won't connect to the gateway.
>
> > > If you let it pick up an IP dynamically then it picks up a dynamic
> > > peer address..and works on the internet OK...but nothing appears to be
> > > routed through to any of the other static IP's say if you assign the
> > > next IP in the range to a 2nd NIC on a multihomed config on an
> > > Exchange Server.
> > > VPN also won't work to the static IP.
>
> > > Never have this trouble with any other ISP...only BT ( BT Click, BT
> > > Connect )
>
> > > Anyone from BT care to explain what's going on ?If they bothered to keep their paperwork it tells you on there what the
> > gateway IP etc is.
>
> > If they have lost it, then it's up to them to jump thru the hoops to get to
> > the person who can tell them what the range is, what the gateway IP is
> > etc...
>
> > It's not difficult, even I can do it, IF given the correct information..
>
> > But you will require a router which will operate in a no NAT situation, many
> > of the lower end budget (& not so budget) priced ones won't.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -A couple of things.
>
> 1.
> The little black BT routers (rebadged from
> somewhere) blow up if you turn them off
> and do not wait for 60 seconds
> before turning them on again.
> Newer ones did not do this.
>
> 2.
> I encountered the BT 5 IP range issue recently.
> I ended up not actually doing anything however
> wondered if it would work if you just assign
> a static external address to the router of
> one of the 5 IP range. Just ignore the
> dynamic address completely.
>
> I did test a BT (ish) single static DSL by assigning
> it the wrong address and sending traffic.
> The traffic arrived - so PPP was not broken.
>
> BT will convert the line to a single static IP
> but there is a cost.
>
> CLerly if you router insists on a dymanic IP
> then this won't work.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

On 27 Jan, 15:05, jdr.sm...@virgin.net wrote:

> BT, in the infiniate wisdom, seem to only want to assign a dynamic IP
> to a routers WAN connection and then so some kind of translation
> through this peer address at BT...or something like that..
>
> Anyone know exactly how they work ?

Just because you don't see a constant single static on your WAN
interface doesn't mean anything - your IPs are routed regardless.

> We've had many customers with BT's own routers blowing up recently
> only to be told that BT no longer support their own routers and that
> the customer needs to upgarde their account or buy their own router.

Common practice - normally it's in the customers interest to upgrade
and get a faster line as well as new hardware.

> Well we've has a few custoemers try this....without much sucess..
>
> Seems that with the BT router BT keep it all 'in-house' so you can't
> actually tell how they are setting it up. You have to wait overnight
> or whatever for the info to be downloaded into the router from BT.

Whoever told you this however is talking nonsense. There is nothing
secretive about BT routed subnets you need 4 things to set any router
up with them

Network logon username and password
Router IP address
Subnet mask
Start and end IP addresses of your range

There is no need to wait overnight to set anything up.

> If you set it to use the customers static router IP then the router
> won't connect to the gateway.

Yes, you can't force an address on the WAN interface

> If you let it pick up an IP dynamically then it picks up a dynamic
> peer address..and works on the internet OK...but nothing appears to be
> routed through to any of the other static IP's say if you assign the
> next IP in the range to a 2nd NIC on a multihomed config on an
> Exchange Server.
> VPN also won't work to the static IP.

It's just the router setup you need to fix here. Some routers (BTs
own 2 wire IG 1800, HG2700, Draytek 2600s and 2800s most commonly) can
cope with 2 IP addresses on their LAN side. One of these IPs would
commonly be used for NAT (class C 192.168.0.1 say) and the other would
be used for the routed subnet (81.35.124.221 for example). You would
set up your 2nd NIC on the server with one of your static IPs in the
public range and make sure that the router wasn't firewalling any
traffic, then you will find your services such as VPN and mail will
start working.

Now if you have a cheaper router like a Netgear DG834 you can still
use it with your routed subnet but you will have to disable NAT
altogether on it and set the LAN side IP address to your public router
IP (i.e. change it from 192.168.0.1 to 81.35.124.221). If you need
NAT you'd have to either use your server to do it or another router
set up on one of your static IPs.

> Never have this trouble with any other ISP...only BT ( BT Click, BT
> Connect )

Other ISPs route their static IPs this was as well, it's not just a BT
thing. If you need help with any specific router/setup then shout
here!

Regards

William MacLeod

I had so much problems trying to setup my router to work with BT's peer addressing system, that I decided to share my setup with anyone else who's having the same problems.