Any tips in setting up 1 mile WiFi connection with Senao bridge?

Just purchased two 14Dbi Yagi's (Antenex) and Senao SL-2511 BG1 Plus
Long Range Wireless Multi-client Bridge to connect a friend to my lan 1
mile away - line-of-sight. (I'm on a hill).

I want to put the Senao at his house and use and old Cisco Aironet
AP-340 at my house. (I wonder if the 30 MW from the AP will be able to
reach him??? Otherwise, I guess I buy another Senao?)

When I set up the Senao in my home, I get the WLAN link light on (after
configging SSID (No WEP, yet) BUT I CAN'T GET DHCP WORKING through the
Senao. Any tips here? The single laptop connected to the Senao just
can't get an IP address allocated. Even If I force an address on,
(Windows XP) I can't get any pings through to anywhere on on my LAN.

Any suggestions for getting the Senao configured properly? And what are
your thoughts about using my old Cisco Aironet 340 AP at my house to
connect to the 14.5Dbi Yagi.

Thanks very much?

-Andrew

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:07:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Just purchased two 14Dbi Yagi's (Antenex) and Senao SL-2511 BG1 Plus
>Long Range Wireless Multi-client Bridge to connect a friend to my lan 1
>mile away - line-of-sight. (I'm on a hill).
>
>I want to put the Senao at his house and use and old Cisco Aironet
>AP-340 at my house. (I wonder if the 30 MW from the AP will be able to
>reach him??? Otherwise, I guess I buy another Senao?)

Well, do the math and calculate the fade margin. What you're looking
for is an absolute minimum of 10dB fade margin. Do it both directions
because you have radically different xmit power on each end of the
link. Go unto:
http://www.ydi.com/calculation/som.php
Your Cisco belches about +14dBm. I'll assume you don't want it on the
roof and have about 25ft of LMR-400 for a loss of about 4dB (including
connectors and pigtail) at each end. I get 12.8dB fade margin, which
is about the minimum acceptable level. That means that you should
probably make an effort to reduce the losses, raise the power, or use
a bigger (+24dBi dish) antenna.

The Senao card comes in two flavours (+20dBm and +23dBm) so your fade
margin in the other direction will be 6 to 9dB better.

>When I set up the Senao in my home, I get the WLAN link light on (after
>configging SSID (No WEP, yet) BUT I CAN'T GET DHCP WORKING through the
>Senao. Any tips here?

Nope. Absolutely no tips, hints, clues, or help delivered without a
disclosure as to what operating system you're working with.

>The single laptop connected to the Senao just
>can't get an IP address allocated. Even If I force an address on,
>(Windows XP) I can't get any pings through to anywhere on on my LAN.

Which exact model Cisco 340? Some have MAC address filtering which
will prevent association until you enter the MAC address of the Senao
card or disable the feature. I should point out that the 340 series
access points do not have an internal DHCP server. That would need to
be supplied by a cable/dsl/modem router/firewall/dhcp-server box or
server. If you have broadcast passthru disabled in your 340 access
point, DCHP requests will not work through the access point.

Try static IP's on the Senao end first. When that works, then
troubleshoot the DCHP problem.

>Any suggestions for getting the Senao configured properly? And what are
>your thoughts about using my old Cisco Aironet 340 AP at my house to
>connect to the 14.5Dbi Yagi.

Well, lacking any specific information about the operating system,
setup, topology, hardware, and current state of the hardware, methinks
specific help would be difficult. It would largely depend upon
whether the Cisco 340 access point is currently working with other
wireless devices. If that's the case, the problem is with the Senao
installation, configuration, operating system, or device.

Perhaps the Cisco wireless access point install and FAQ would be
helpful:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...0800dffdf.html
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/102/wlan/ap-faq.html

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks Jeff. Responses in-line.



Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:07:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Just purchased two 14Dbi Yagi's (Antenex) and Senao SL-2511 BG1 Plus
>>Long Range Wireless Multi-client Bridge to connect a friend to my lan 1
>>mile away - line-of-sight. (I'm on a hill).
>>
>>I want to put the Senao at his house and use and old Cisco Aironet
>>AP-340 at my house. (I wonder if the 30 MW from the AP will be able to
>>reach him??? Otherwise, I guess I buy another Senao?)
>
>
> Well, do the math and calculate the fade margin. What you're looking
> for is an absolute minimum of 10dB fade margin. Do it both directions
> because you have radically different xmit power on each end of the
> link. Go unto:
> http://www.ydi.com/calculation/som.php
> Your Cisco belches about +14dBm. I'll assume you don't want it on the
> roof and have about 25ft of LMR-400 for a loss of about 4dB (including
> connectors and pigtail) at each end.

Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the antenna
mast... May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.
;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the AP340,
although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire connector /
antenna in there now.)

I get 12.8dB fade margin, which
> is about the minimum acceptable level. That means that you should
> probably make an effort to reduce the losses, raise the power, or use
> a bigger (+24dBi dish) antenna.

OK, I'll be ready to replace this if it doesn't work.
>
> The Senao card comes in two flavours (+20dBm and +23dBm) so your fade
> margin in the other direction will be 6 to 9dB better.
>
I have the 200 mW version.

>
>>When I set up the Senao in my home, I get the WLAN link light on (after
>>configging SSID (No WEP, yet) BUT I CAN'T GET DHCP WORKING through the
>>Senao. Any tips here?
>
>
> Nope. Absolutely no tips, hints, clues, or help delivered without a
> disclosure as to what operating system you're working with.

XP Pro. ;-) NO SP-2 (yet, anyway)

>
>>The single laptop connected to the Senao just
>>can't get an IP address allocated. Even If I force an address on,
>>(Windows XP) I can't get any pings through to anywhere on on my LAN.
>
>
> Which exact model Cisco 340?

AIR-AP341S1C AIR-US

Some have MAC address filtering which
> will prevent association until you enter the MAC address of the Senao
> card or disable the feature. I should point out that the 340 series
> access points do not have an internal DHCP server.

Right. I am counting on another router within my infrastructure to dole
out The IP addresses.

That would need to
> be supplied by a cable/dsl/modem router/firewall/dhcp-server box or
> server. If you have broadcast passthru disabled in your 340 access
> point, DCHP requests will not work through the access point.

I'll check
BUT I CAN connect directly with my laptop through this AP. And it gives
out my router/firewall's appropriate DHCP'd address.

>
> Try static IP's on the Senao end first. When that works, then
> troubleshoot the DCHP problem.

There are two modes the Senao cna operate in. Which one is preferred?

>
>>Any suggestions for getting the Senao configured properly? And what are
>>your thoughts about using my old Cisco Aironet 340 AP at my house to
>>connect to the 14.5Dbi Yagi.
>
>
> Well, lacking any specific information about the operating system,
> setup, topology, hardware, and current state of the hardware, methinks
> specific help would be difficult. It would largely depend upon
> whether the Cisco 340 access point is currently working with other
> wireless devices. If that's the case, the problem is with the Senao
> installation, configuration, operating system, or device.
>
> Perhaps the Cisco wireless access point install and FAQ would be
> helpful:

Pretty sure the Cisco AP is configged' properly, since I can attach with
my laptop through it.

>
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...0800dffdf.html
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/102/wlan/ap-faq.html
>

Thanks

Any input greatly appreciated.


-Andrew

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:31:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the antenna
>mast...

Why not right at the antenna? Incidentally, have a wonderful time
trying to get it waterproof. That's not a tivial exercise. I like to
use pressurized enclosures, but that's messy and expensive.

>May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.

Yeah, sure. That's true until water gets into the antenna, coax, or
radio. Or until a neighbor adds an access point and trashes your
channel. Or until the tin foil hat crowd arrives to declare your
transmitter to be a danger to wildlife, health, and the environment.

>;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the AP340,
>although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire connector /
>antenna in there now.)

Don't do that. RG-8/u is VERY lossy at 2.4GHz. What you want is
LMR-400. See:
http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
RG-8/u eats 13dB/100ft
LMR-400 eats 6.7dB/100ft
For a 10ft run, that's only 0.5dB difference, so you can possibly get
away with it. As for butchering the access point, permit me to
suggest using a pigtail or adapter from R-TNC to N.
http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
You can get one that's 10ft long if you wanna make it one piece and
avoid the LMR-400. However, your loss will be radically higher.

Argh. Visitors, gotta run.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

A lot of this sounds like a UHF&VHF TV antenna project I did 45 years ago.

I like the shortest run possible. Go right to the top by the antenna.

Is a pole stiff enough? I used a 20ft tower on top of the house. I
could climb on it easily. Of course my antenna was 4' high and 5' wide,
but you are working to a much closer aiming tolerance. I had a rotator.

I used a 10 watt light bulb in the "bird house" which housed the down
convertor to keep moisture down when it was off. This was in upstate
New York. This also drew questions from people driving by who asked
about the light (visible through a plexiglass panel) on the top of the
antenna tower.

What is your outside environment? Too cold and some solid state
equipment stops running.


Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:31:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the antenna
>>mast...
>
>
> Why not right at the antenna? Incidentally, have a wonderful time
> trying to get it waterproof. That's not a tivial exercise. I like to
> use pressurized enclosures, but that's messy and expensive.
>
>
>>May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.
>
>
> Yeah, sure. That's true until water gets into the antenna, coax, or
> radio. Or until a neighbor adds an access point and trashes your
> channel. Or until the tin foil hat crowd arrives to declare your
> transmitter to be a danger to wildlife, health, and the environment.
>
>
>>;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the AP340,
>>although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire connector /
>>antenna in there now.)
>
>
> Don't do that. RG-8/u is VERY lossy at 2.4GHz. What you want is
> LMR-400. See:
> http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
> RG-8/u eats 13dB/100ft
> LMR-400 eats 6.7dB/100ft
> For a 10ft run, that's only 0.5dB difference, so you can possibly get
> away with it. As for butchering the access point, permit me to
> suggest using a pigtail or adapter from R-TNC to N.
> http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
> You can get one that's 10ft long if you wanna make it one piece and
> avoid the LMR-400. However, your loss will be radically higher.
>
> Argh. Visitors, gotta run.
>
>

There *are* outdoor bridges and access points being manufactured. While
not cheap, they probably are as cheap as going through all the
contortions to make your own system work and they're pretty reliable
right out of the box. AND there's no LMR-400 to run unless you need to
make a short pigtail, which makes for very low loss.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> A lot of this sounds like a UHF&VHF TV antenna project I did 45 years ago.
>
> I like the shortest run possible. Go right to the top by the antenna.
>
> Is a pole stiff enough? I used a 20ft tower on top of the house. I
> could climb on it easily. Of course my antenna was 4' high and 5' wide,
> but you are working to a much closer aiming tolerance. I had a rotator.
>
> I used a 10 watt light bulb in the "bird house" which housed the down
> convertor to keep moisture down when it was off. This was in upstate
> New York. This also drew questions from people driving by who asked
> about the light (visible through a plexiglass panel) on the top of the
> antenna tower.
>
> What is your outside environment? Too cold and some solid state
> equipment stops running.
>
>
> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:31:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the antenna
>>> mast...
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not right at the antenna? Incidentally, have a wonderful time
>> trying to get it waterproof. That's not a tivial exercise. I like to
>> use pressurized enclosures, but that's messy and expensive.
>>
>>
>>> May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, sure. That's true until water gets into the antenna, coax, or
>> radio. Or until a neighbor adds an access point and trashes your
>> channel. Or until the tin foil hat crowd arrives to declare your
>> transmitter to be a danger to wildlife, health, and the environment.
>>
>>
>>> ;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the
>>> AP340, although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire
>>> connector / antenna in there now.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't do that. RG-8/u is VERY lossy at 2.4GHz. What you want is
>> LMR-400. See:
>> http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
>> RG-8/u eats 13dB/100ft
>> LMR-400 eats 6.7dB/100ft
>> For a 10ft run, that's only 0.5dB difference, so you can possibly get
>> away with it. As for butchering the access point, permit me to
>> suggest using a pigtail or adapter from R-TNC to N.
>> http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
>> You can get one that's 10ft long if you wanna make it one piece and
>> avoid the LMR-400. However, your loss will be radically higher.
>>
>> Argh. Visitors, gotta run.
>>
>>

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:50:02 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>A lot of this sounds like a UHF&VHF TV antenna project I did 45 years ago.
>I like the shortest run possible. Go right to the top by the antenna.

Yeah, but your probably did it with twinlead, which doesn't like to be
near anything metallic and hates sharp turns.

>Is a pole stiff enough? I used a 20ft tower on top of the house. I
>could climb on it easily. Of course my antenna was 4' high and 5' wide,
>but you are working to a much closer aiming tolerance. I had a rotator.

It depends on the pipe length and antenna type. The 14dBi yagi is
about 25 degrees. You can get fairly sloppy with the pipe and antenna
mount and still have it work. However, the -3dB vertical beamwidth of
a 24dBi dish antenna is about 8 degrees. That's going to take a
rather stiff pipe and rigid mounting.

>I used a 10 watt light bulb in the "bird house" which housed the down
>convertor to keep moisture down when it was off. This was in upstate
>New York. This also drew questions from people driving by who asked
>about the light (visible through a plexiglass panel) on the top of the
>antenna tower.

Yep, heating will prevent condensation and help evaporate moisture.
However, most access points burn as much power and do fairly well on
keeping themselves warm. That's fine for the winter, but may cause
overheating during the summer. Make sure there's some holes so
there's a place for the evaporated moisture to go.

>What is your outside environment? Too cold and some solid state
>equipment stops running.

I live in the Monterey Bay area. Temperatures are mild and do not
tend toward extremes. The dense redwood/fir forest acts as a
moderator. We have an easy environment.

Outdoor repackage with a Linksys WRT54G:
http://www.sveasoft.com/modules.php?...adArticle&id=1
(9 pages. Click on the tiny "next" in lower right of page).

There are also access points made for outdoor use:
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=36
You won't like the price.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:31:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the antenna
>>mast...
>
>
> Why not right at the antenna? Incidentally, have a wonderful time
> trying to get it waterproof. That's not a tivial exercise. I like to
> use pressurized enclosures, but that's messy and expensive.
>
>
>>May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.
>
>
> Yeah, sure. That's true until water gets into the antenna, coax, or
> radio. Or until a neighbor adds an access point and trashes your
> channel. Or until the tin foil hat crowd arrives to declare your
> transmitter to be a danger to wildlife, health, and the environment.
>
>
>>;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the AP340,
>>although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire connector /
>>antenna in there now.)
>
>
> Don't do that. RG-8/u is VERY lossy at 2.4GHz. What you want is
> LMR-400. See:

OK... Sorry.. My bad. It IS LMR-400 ... I just assumed it was RG-8,
sincs it is about the same size as I rember RG8 from my radio days.

> http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
> RG-8/u eats 13dB/100ft
> LMR-400 eats 6.7dB/100ft
> For a 10ft run, that's only 0.5dB difference, so you can possibly get
> away with it. As for butchering the access point, permit me to
> suggest using a pigtail or adapter from R-TNC to N.
> http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
> You can get one that's 10ft long if you wanna make it one piece and
> avoid the LMR-400. However, your loss will be radically higher.
>
> Argh. Visitors, gotta run.
>
>
Thanks

-Andrew

Thanks for the reply, response in-line

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> A lot of this sounds like a UHF&VHF TV antenna project I did 45 years ago.
>
> I like the shortest run possible. Go right to the top by the antenna.
>
> Is a pole stiff enough? I used a 20ft tower on top of the house. I
> could climb on it easily. Of course my antenna was 4' high and 5' wide,
> but you are working to a much closer aiming tolerance. I had a rotator.
>
> I used a 10 watt light bulb in the "bird house" which housed the down
> convertor to keep moisture down when it was off. This was in upstate
> New York. This also drew questions from people driving by who asked
> about the light (visible through a plexiglass panel) on the top of the
> antenna tower.
>
> What is your outside environment? Too cold and some solid state
> equipment stops running.

In the SF Bay area, inland. Lowest temp would be somewhere around 28
deg, once or twice a year. Avg temp probably around 60-80 deg.

-Andrew

Thanks Rôgêr,

Trying to keep the costs as LOW as possible. Experiementer quality, not
production or sale-able quality.

-Andrew


Rôgêr wrote:

> There *are* outdoor bridges and access points being manufactured. While
> not cheap, they probably are as cheap as going through all the
> contortions to make your own system work and they're pretty reliable
> right out of the box. AND there's no LMR-400 to run unless you need to
> make a short pigtail, which makes for very low loss.
>
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>> A lot of this sounds like a UHF&VHF TV antenna project I did 45 years
>> ago.
>>
>> I like the shortest run possible. Go right to the top by the antenna.
>>
>> Is a pole stiff enough? I used a 20ft tower on top of the house. I
>> could climb on it easily. Of course my antenna was 4' high and 5'
>> wide, but you are working to a much closer aiming tolerance. I had a
>> rotator.
>>
>> I used a 10 watt light bulb in the "bird house" which housed the down
>> convertor to keep moisture down when it was off. This was in upstate
>> New York. This also drew questions from people driving by who asked
>> about the light (visible through a plexiglass panel) on the top of the
>> antenna tower.
>>
>> What is your outside environment? Too cold and some solid state
>> equipment stops running.
>>
>>
>> Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:31:15 -0700, Andrew <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Actually I AM going to house the thing in a Box 10' below the
>>>> antenna mast...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why not right at the antenna? Incidentally, have a wonderful time
>>> trying to get it waterproof. That's not a tivial exercise. I like to
>>> use pressurized enclosures, but that's messy and expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>>> May as well. I really am never going to need to fuss with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, sure. That's true until water gets into the antenna, coax, or
>>> radio. Or until a neighbor adds an access point and trashes your
>>> channel. Or until the tin foil hat crowd arrives to declare your
>>> transmitter to be a danger to wildlife, health, and the environment.
>>>
>>>
>>>> ;-) I have some RG8 with N connectors (I will install one in the
>>>> AP340, although I wish I didn't have to hack up the little wire
>>>> connector / antenna in there now.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't do that. RG-8/u is VERY lossy at 2.4GHz. What you want is
>>> LMR-400. See:
>>> http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm
>>> RG-8/u eats 13dB/100ft
>>> LMR-400 eats 6.7dB/100ft
>>> For a 10ft run, that's only 0.5dB difference, so you can possibly get
>>> away with it. As for butchering the access point, permit me to
>>> suggest using a pigtail or adapter from R-TNC to N.
>>> http://www.fab-corp.com/K1.htm
>>> You can get one that's 10ft long if you wanna make it one piece and
>>> avoid the LMR-400. However, your loss will be radically higher.
>>>
>>> Argh. Visitors, gotta run.
>>>
>>>