AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency

Hi:

Please don't be annoyed/offended by my question as I decreased the
modulation frequency to where it would actually be realistic.

I have a very weird question about electromagnetic radiation,
carriers, and modulators.

Is it mathematically-possible to carry a modulator signal [in this
case, a pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared on a AM carrier signal whose
frequency is 10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000)
nanocycle* every 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 giga-
eons and whose amplitude is a minimum of 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-
power-10^1,000,000,000 gigaphotons per 10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-
power-10^1,000,000,000) nanosecond?

If it is not mathematically-possible, then please explain why.

10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000) second is an
extremely short amount of time. 10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-
power-10^1,000,000,000) nanosecond is even shorter because a
nanosecond is shorter than a second.

Giga-eon = a billion eons

Eon = a billion years

*nanocycle = billionth of a cycle

Gigaphoton = a billion photons

10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 -- now that is one
large large number.

10^1,000,000,000 = 10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000

So you get:

(10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000) to the power (10-to-the-
power-1,000,000,000)

10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000) = 10^-(10-to-the-
power-1,000,000,000)-to-the-power-(10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000)

10^-(10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000) to the power (10-to-the-
power-1,000,000,000) is an extremely small number at it equals 10-to-
the-power-NEGATIVE-[(10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000) to the power (10-
to-the-power-1,000,000,000)]

No offense but please respond with reasonable answers & keep out the
jokes, off-topic nonsense, taunts, insults, and trivializations. I am
really interested in this.


Thanks,

Radium

Radium wrote:

> ...
> Is it mathematically-possible to carry a modulator signal [in this
> case, a pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
> amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared on a AM carrier signal whose

The 20 Khz is obviously NOT an audio tone, but exists as VLF, what you
are terming "modulation" is actually a mixing of carriers then ... and
the problem with your question ONLY BEGINS there!

JS

On Jun 29, 8:08 pm, John Smith I <assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The 20 Khz is obviously NOT an audio tone,

Yes it is. 20 KHz is the highest audible frequency. Humans hear from
20 to 20,000 Hz. No offense but WTF are you thinking??

> but exists as VLF, what you
> are terming "modulation" is actually a mixing of carriers then ... and
> the problem with your question ONLY BEGINS there!

A carrier wave is modulated by the modulator wave. On most AM
stations, the modulator wave consists of the voice of someone
speaking.

Most AM stations have carrier frequencies in the medium wave band - in
the range of 520,000 to 1,160,000 cycles every 1 second.

In the case I am describing, the modulator wave is a 20 KHz pure sine-
wave tone on a carrier frequency of 10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-
power-10^1,000,000,000) nanocycle every 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-
power-10^1,000,000,000 giga-eons. Is this scenario mathematically-
possible? If not, then why??

Radium wrote:

WTF are you thinking when you describe the 20 Khz signal as, "a
pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared"

One square meter of copper wire squared, a squared meter of modulation
xfrmr ... ?

Your question sounds like one of a high school physics student
attempting to ask a seemingly logical--yet complex question, and of no
real world value.

Your ability at obfuscation is only mundane ...

If what you say is true, you have an interest, what is the purpose of
your question?

JS

On 6/29/07 9:03 PM, in article
(E-Mail Removed) om, "Radium"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Jun 29, 8:08 pm, John Smith I <assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The 20 Khz is obviously NOT an audio tone,
>
> Yes it is. 20 KHz is the highest audible frequency. Humans hear from
> 20 to 20,000 Hz. No offense but WTF are you thinking??
>
>> but exists as VLF, what you
>> are terming "modulation" is actually a mixing of carriers then ... and
>> the problem with your question ONLY BEGINS there!
>
> A carrier wave is modulated by the modulator wave. On most AM
> stations, the modulator wave consists of the voice of someone
> speaking.
>
> Most AM stations have carrier frequencies in the medium wave band - in
> the range of 520,000 to 1,160,000 cycles every 1 second.
>
> In the case I am describing, the modulator wave is a 20 KHz pure sine-
> wave tone on a carrier frequency of 10^-(1,000,000,000-to-the-
> power-10^1,000,000,000) nanocycle every 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-
> power-10^1,000,000,000 giga-eons. Is this scenario mathematically-
> possible? If not, then why??
>

No, it's not possible. No planetary system will exist for that span of
time.

Now will you go away?

On Jun 29, 9:15 pm, John Smith I <assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Radium wrote:
>
> WTF are you thinking when you describe the 20 Khz signal as, "a
> pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
> amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared"
>
> One square meter of copper wire squared, a squared meter of modulation
> xfrmr ... ?

Sorry that should be 1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html

1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2 is about the loudness of a "normal
conversation" according to the above link.

F-------------------king typos!!!!!!!!!!

>
> Your question sounds like one of a high school physics student
> attempting to ask a seemingly logical--yet complex question, and of no
> real world value.
>
> Your ability at obfuscation is only mundane ...
>
> If what you say is true, you have an interest, what is the purpose of
> your question?

My basic question is if I have an AM receiver which receives signals
on a carrier frequency of Fc, is it mathematically-possible for me to
receive a modulator signal -- on that station -- of a frequency higher
than Fc? If not, then why? If not, then how are the submarines which
use ELFs [Extremely Low carrier Frequencies around 3 to 30 Hz] able to
perform voice communications?

I just stretched the question out to astronomical extremes. I have a
habit of doing that.

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Radium <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi:

> Please don't be annoyed/offended by my question as I decreased the
> modulation frequency to where it would actually be realistic.

> I have a very weird question about electromagnetic radiation,
> carriers, and modulators.

> Is it mathematically-possible to carry a modulator signal [in this
> case, a pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
> amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared on a AM carrier signal whose

The fact that you specified the modulation in W/M^2 immediately
says you don't know WTF you are talking about and the question
is meaningless.

You can AM modulate any frequency 0 < Fc < infinity with any other
frequency 0 < Fm < infinity.

Whether it's physically possible or results in massive distortion
is a separate issue.

<snip inane crap>

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On 6/29/07 9:30 PM, in article
(E-Mail Removed) m, "Radium"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Jun 29, 9:15 pm, John Smith I <assemblywiz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Radium wrote:
>>
>> WTF are you thinking when you describe the 20 Khz signal as, "a
>> pure-sine-wave-tone] with a frequency of 20 KHz and an
>> amplitude of 1-watt-per-meter-squared"
>>
>> One square meter of copper wire squared, a squared meter of modulation
>> xfrmr ... ?
>
> Sorry that should be 1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2
>
> http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html
>
> 1 X [10^-6] Watts-per-m^2 is about the loudness of a "normal
> conversation" according to the above link.
>
> F-------------------king typos!!!!!!!!!!
>
>>
>> Your question sounds like one of a high school physics student
>> attempting to ask a seemingly logical--yet complex question, and of no
>> real world value.
>>
>> Your ability at obfuscation is only mundane ...
>>
>> If what you say is true, you have an interest, what is the purpose of
>> your question?
>
> My basic question is if I have an AM receiver which receives signals
> on a carrier frequency of Fc, is it mathematically-possible for me to
> receive a modulator signal -- on that station -- of a frequency higher
> than Fc? If not, then why?

What is the design bandwidth of the "fixed frequency" receiver?

When you say "modulator signal" do you mean a sideband of the transmitted
signal, or do you mean at least one sideband and the Carrier, or do you mean
the Carrier and both of it's sidebands?

It would be good if you would attempt to understand AM modulation, and
generally some of the factors of receiver design.

> If not, then how are the submarines which
> use ELFs [Extremely Low carrier Frequencies around 3 to 30 Hz] able to
> perform voice communications?

Why do you believe they use voice communications on the ELF system?

>
> I just stretched the question out to astronomical extremes. I have a
> habit of doing that.

You have a habit of appearing to be an idiot each time you do it.

"Radium" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ps.com...
> My basic question is if I have an AM receiver which receives signals
> on a carrier frequency of Fc, is it mathematically-possible for me to
> receive a modulator signal -- on that station -- of a frequency higher
> than Fc? If not, then why? If not, then how are the submarines which
> use ELFs [Extremely Low carrier Frequencies around 3 to 30 Hz] able to
> perform voice communications?
>
> I just stretched the question out to astronomical extremes. I have a
> habit of doing that.

Why not simply ask the question you mean to ask, then, rather
than the absurd numbers you put in the original version of this
(and which you then expect everyone to work through, just to
see what the hell you might be talking about)?

The answer to the question you seem to be asking is obvious
if you simply work through the mathematics of what is going on
in amplitude modulation. So why not simply do that, and not
ask such incredibly obtuse questions?

One hint: the ELF submarine communications to which you refer
are NOT carrying voice communications, but very low-rate
CW ("Morse code," if you want to think of it that way) signalling.

Bob M.

On Jun 29, 10:10 pm, "Bob Myers" <nospample...@address.invalid> wrote:
> "Radium" <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed) ps.com...
>
> > My basic question is if I have an AM receiver which receives signals
> > on a carrier frequency of Fc, is it mathematically-possible for me to
> > receive a modulator signal -- on that station -- of a frequency higher
> > than Fc? If not, then why? If not, then how are the submarines which
> > use ELFs [Extremely Low carrier Frequencies around 3 to 30 Hz] able to
> > perform voice communications?
>
> > I just stretched the question out to astronomical extremes. I have a
> > habit of doing that.
>
> Why not simply ask the question you mean to ask, then, rather
> than the absurd numbers you put in the original version of this
> (and which you then expect everyone to work through, just to
> see what the hell you might be talking about)?
>
> The answer to the question you seem to be asking is obvious
> if you simply work through the mathematics of what is going on
> in amplitude modulation. So why not simply do that, and not
> ask such incredibly obtuse questions?
>
> One hint: the ELF submarine communications to which you refer
> are NOT carrying voice communications, but very low-rate
> CW ("Morse code," if you want to think of it that way) signalling.
>
> Bob M.