Advice needed on connecting my neighbour to my wireless setup.

I have a wireless router in my house and was wondering about hooking
up my neighbour to give them access to my broadband,

Their house is 150 ft across the road and the signal would need to go
through 2 external walls and probably a tree or 2.

My router is a 3Com 54g OfficeConnect

What hardware would I need to get in order to make this work. Money is
an issue I am afraid so the cheaper the better.

many thanks

Harry

Harry wrote:

> I have a wireless router in my house and was wondering about hooking
> up my neighbour to give them access to my broadband,
>
> Their house is 150 ft across the road and the signal would need to go
> through 2 external walls and probably a tree or 2.
>
> My router is a 3Com 54g OfficeConnect
>
> What hardware would I need to get in order to make this work. Money is
> an issue I am afraid so the cheaper the better.
>
> many thanks
>
> Harry
The trees will be the killer here. Is there no true line of sight
possible? If you can not find a line of sight then you will not
succeed. If there is a line of sight, then use external aerials and
it should work very well, but keep the aerial cable as short as possible.

David

I would mount your router in a weather proof box outside on the wall and you
should be able to do it, if not then your neabour would need to get a dish
antenna and point it at your router.

I do it this way with my neabour, he is across the road and down 4 houses,
we get decent speeds and solid connection 24/7.


"Harry" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have a wireless router in my house and was wondering about hooking
> up my neighbour to give them access to my broadband,
>
> Their house is 150 ft across the road and the signal would need to go
> through 2 external walls and probably a tree or 2.
>
> My router is a 3Com 54g OfficeConnect
>
> What hardware would I need to get in order to make this work. Money is
> an issue I am afraid so the cheaper the better.
>
> many thanks
>
> Harry

I have the following for sale to enable house to house wireless internet.
I used them for 5 days.

2 - antennas
http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...products_id=28
1 10 foot cable assembly -
http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...roducts_id=186
1 25 foot cable assembly -
http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...roducts_id=100


(E-Mail Removed)

$95 delivered via ground carrier

We use these at a lot farther distance than that.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5755948360

"Wayne" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:wCEVd.5928$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have the following for sale to enable house to house wireless internet.
> I used them for 5 days.
>
> 2 - antennas
> http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...products_id=28
> 1 10 foot cable assembly -
> http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...roducts_id=186
> 1 25 foot cable assembly -
> http://www.sharperconcepts.net/produ...roducts_id=100
>
>
> (E-Mail Removed)
>
> $95 delivered via ground carrier
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:53:44 +0000, Harry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have a wireless router in my house and was wondering about hooking
>up my neighbour to give them access to my broadband,
>
>Their house is 150 ft across the road and the signal would need to go
>through 2 external walls and probably a tree or 2.

If you can't decide on the number of trees, follow the leaves down to
the trunk, and count the number of trunks. Actually, what would be
more interesting is the type of leaves and how many feet or meters of
tree the signal will need to penetrate. In general, about 10ft of
broadleaf tree is good for a -10dB signal lost. At 150 ft, with
decent antennas, it is close enough that one could "drill" through the
leaves, especially if one can see something between the leaves.
However, if the tree is really dense, then it probably won't work.

The walls are a similar problem. Without the slightest clue as to
their composition, it's difficult for my crystal ball to predict the
propogation characteristics. How thick? Any aluminium foil backed
insulation? Any chicken wire? Any concrete? If so, forget it. The
signal won't go through.

>My router is a 3Com 54g OfficeConnect

No it's not. 3com makes about 5 routers that fit that description.
Kindly disclose the model number (3CRW_____) so that I can determine
if the antennas are removable or not.

>What hardware would I need to get in order to make this work. Money is
>an issue I am afraid so the cheaper the better.

The cheapest way is to get a decent wireless client radio at the
neighbors with a decent high gain antenna. Plant it in a window.
Move your 3com access point also to a window. Take your chances with
the tree. The trick is that the antennas must have some gain. I
don't think it can be done with the stock rubber duck antennas. I
suggest an 8dBi or 14dBi panel antenna such as one of these:
http://www.fab-corp.com
(Select "Antenna Panel" as their webmonster seems to be making a
concerted effort to prevent anyone from bookmarking anything other
than the home page. Sheesh).

However, the use of such external antennas assumes that your badly
specified 3com wireless router has removeable antennas. If not, or if
inconveniently located, it will be necessary to add another wireless
access point for the link. You can also use a wireless router as an
access point by simply ignoring the WAN port, setting the IP address
to something not duplicated, and disabling the DHCP server. The LAN
port of this access point goes to one of the LAN ports on your
existing 3com wireless router.

My guess is that a pair of WAP54G access points ($70/ea), setup as a
wireless bridge so that the neighbor can connect more than one
computah, will work. Two 8dBi Maxrad antennas at $25/ea. Two
pigtails at $10/ea. Some CAT5 cable at $5. Total is $215 plus tax
and shipping. Probably a bit high, but it will work if your countless
number of trees aren't too thick.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:34:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My guess is that a pair of WAP54G access points ($70/ea), setup as a
>wireless bridge so that the neighbor can connect more than one
>computah, will work. Two 8dBi Maxrad antennas at $25/ea. Two
>pigtails at $10/ea. Some CAT5 cable at $5. Total is $215 plus tax
>and shipping. Probably a bit high, but it will work if your countless
>number of trees aren't too thick.

Ok, it's probably too expensive. So, make your own antenna. Methinks
the biquad at:
http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
is the easiest to make. Forget the pigail and just use a fairly short
coax cable run to whatever connector is on the access point or
wireless router (R-SMA or R-TNC).

There are also proponents of the coffee can antenna:
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html
Lots of other sites with cantenna plans.

If the antenna on the 3com access point is non-removeable, then a
simple reflector will be a big help:
http://www.freeantennas.com/products.htm

You might consider a 2nd access point on your roof, in a waterproof
enclosure, and with an omnidirectional antenna. Supply service the
entire neighborhood so you can dilute your monthly broadband charges
accordingly. Be sure to check your ISP's terms of service or you may
get unplugged.

Since the neighbor is across the street, you might investigate if
there are any common drain or utility pipes that might be used to run
wire, CAT5, coax, or fiber across the road. I've done this a few
times when faced with political or LATA boundaries. I've also run my
own cable between telephone and power poles with mixed results. The
power and telco people have generally left things alone, but the
maniacs that clear off the weeds around the base of the wooden poles
were not as tolerant and chopped up my cable with a weed whacker. If
you've never climbed a pole or done utility work, I would recommend
you get some qualified help as you really only have one life to give
for your neighbors connectivity.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

If your neighbour is across the road then it's fair bet that you have facing
windows, angle is not a problem.
Just place your router / AP on the window sill and your neighbour will need
to place USB adapter (on up to 5m of cable)
on his window sill. If necessary you can place silver foil on card, bent to
a VS. shape or parabolic arc behind either or both.
That's what I do, works a well without any silver foil, but with steadier
signal strength / quality with the silver foil.
Regards,
Martin

"Martin²" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>If your neighbour is across the road then it's fair bet that you have facing
>windows, angle is not a problem.

One serious problem with this can be multipath reflections off
of passing vehicles, or worse yet having a vehicle pass that is
large enough to simply block the signal entirely. E.g., a large
van parked on the roadside in just the right place can totally
kill the signal! If one or the other (hopefully both) buildings
has a second story, it is significantly better to have one or
both units in facing windows that are elevated above road level.

>Just place your router / AP on the window sill and your neighbour will need
>to place USB adapter (on up to 5m of cable)
>on his window sill. If necessary you can place silver foil on card, bent to
>a VS. shape or parabolic arc behind either or both.
>That's what I do, works a well without any silver foil, but with steadier
>signal strength / quality with the silver foil.

Try aluminum foil; it works just as well and is much less
expensive than silver foil... :-)

I did a little fooling around with that concept awhile back. I
found that without careful adjustment it is possible to get 3-4
dB gain with a very crude reflector. The trick is proper
spacing between the reflector and the antenna. It should be
just about exactly 4 inches.

The size of the reflector, and for that matter the shape, don't
seem to be very important. Another 3 dB, at least, can be
squeezed out perhaps with shaping and *very* careful adjustment
of the spacing.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:34:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:53:44 +0000, Harry <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I have a wireless router in my house and was wondering about hooking
>>up my neighbour to give them access to my broadband,
>>
>>Their house is 150 ft across the road and the signal would need to go
>>through 2 external walls and probably a tree or 2.
>
>If you can't decide on the number of trees, follow the leaves down to
>the trunk, and count the number of trunks. Actually, what would be
>more interesting is the type of leaves and how many feet or meters of
>tree the signal will need to penetrate. In general, about 10ft of
>broadleaf tree is good for a -10dB signal lost. At 150 ft, with
>decent antennas, it is close enough that one could "drill" through the
>leaves, especially if one can see something between the leaves.
>However, if the tree is really dense, then it probably won't work.
>
>The walls are a similar problem. Without the slightest clue as to
>their composition, it's difficult for my crystal ball to predict the
>propogation characteristics. How thick? Any aluminium foil backed
>insulation? Any chicken wire? Any concrete? If so, forget it. The
>signal won't go through.
>
>>My router is a 3Com 54g OfficeConnect
>
>No it's not. 3com makes about 5 routers that fit that description.
>Kindly disclose the model number (3CRW_____) so that I can determine
>if the antennas are removable or not.
>
Its a 3crwe754g72-a
>>What hardware would I need to get in order to make this work. Money is
>>an issue I am afraid so the cheaper the better.
>
>The cheapest way is to get a decent wireless client radio at the
>neighbors with a decent high gain antenna. Plant it in a window.
>Move your 3com access point also to a window. Take your chances with
>the tree. The trick is that the antennas must have some gain. I
>don't think it can be done with the stock rubber duck antennas. I
>suggest an 8dBi or 14dBi panel antenna such as one of these:
> http://www.fab-corp.com
>(Select "Antenna Panel" as their webmonster seems to be making a
>concerted effort to prevent anyone from bookmarking anything other
>than the home page. Sheesh).
>
>However, the use of such external antennas assumes that your badly
>specified 3com wireless router has removeable antennas. If not, or if
>inconveniently located, it will be necessary to add another wireless
>access point for the link. You can also use a wireless router as an
>access point by simply ignoring the WAN port, setting the IP address
>to something not duplicated, and disabling the DHCP server. The LAN
>port of this access point goes to one of the LAN ports on your
>existing 3com wireless router.
>
>My guess is that a pair of WAP54G access points ($70/ea), setup as a
>wireless bridge so that the neighbor can connect more than one
>computah, will work. Two 8dBi Maxrad antennas at $25/ea. Two
>pigtails at $10/ea. Some CAT5 cable at $5. Total is $215 plus tax
>and shipping. Probably a bit high, but it will work if your countless
>number of trees aren't too thick.