ADSL Sync problems

(E-Mail Removed)lid wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:01:29 -0000, "Kraftee"
> <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote:
>
>> (E-Mail Removed)lid wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:58:24 -0000, "Kraftee"
>>> <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Exactly as they have to pay to get the engineer to visit, whilst if
>>>> the end user goes direct to BT, firstly they will get charged
>>>> (statutory ruling now, honest) & more than likely the problem will
>>>> not be fixed either as the engineer will only check the basic dial
>>>> tone is ok & nothing else...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Statutory ruling is it? Which statute is that then?
>>
>> BT's own internal rule book about charging, if you really want o get
>> worried, they are now stipualting that any internal wiring faults,
>> even before the NTE are now chargable, can't see it working out in
>> practice but that is the ruling from on high in Openreach.....
>>
>> Don't shoot the messenger, there have been a lot of arguments about
>> this between field staf & management but the ruling is still in
>> place...
>>
>
> I am concerned that the messenger has delivered the wrong message.
>
> statute: a law expressly enacted by the *legislature*.
>
> I was just wondering whether you had come across another piece of
> Blair's baloney that I had missed? Or is that how BT tell it and you
> believe it?

It is part & parcel of the code of practice which OFCOM grant BT their
licence.... OFCOM being a goverment quango I beleive case is proven, now
if you really want to nit pick you will have to differentiate between
Coperate law & Civil in which there is a world of difference as I have
recently found to my cost

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:33:26 -0000, "Kraftee"
<(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:01:29 -0000, "Kraftee"
>> <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote:
>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed)lid wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:58:24 -0000, "Kraftee"
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed) please we're bristish.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly as they have to pay to get the engineer to visit, whilst if
>>>>> the end user goes direct to BT, firstly they will get charged
>>>>> (statutory ruling now, honest) & more than likely the problem will
>>>>> not be fixed either as the engineer will only check the basic dial
>>>>> tone is ok & nothing else...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Statutory ruling is it? Which statute is that then?
>>>
>>> BT's own internal rule book about charging, if you really want o get
>>> worried, they are now stipualting that any internal wiring faults,
>>> even before the NTE are now chargable, can't see it working out in
>>> practice but that is the ruling from on high in Openreach.....
>>>
>>> Don't shoot the messenger, there have been a lot of arguments about
>>> this between field staf & management but the ruling is still in
>>> place...
>>>
>>
>> I am concerned that the messenger has delivered the wrong message.
>>
>> statute: a law expressly enacted by the *legislature*.
>>
>> I was just wondering whether you had come across another piece of
>> Blair's baloney that I had missed? Or is that how BT tell it and you
>> believe it?
>
>It is part & parcel of the code of practice which OFCOM grant BT their
>licence.... OFCOM being a goverment quango I beleive case is proven, now
>if you really want to nit pick you will have to differentiate between
>Coperate law & Civil in which there is a world of difference as I have
>recently found to my cost
>

So you are unsure of the difference between statutory and regulatory
then?

--
cerberus

In article <43b27e88$0$1459$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Kraftee <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Try it in the test socket inside your Master socket (that is if you have
>a NTE5A master, is the faceplate split in the middle with screws in the
>lower part?), if it's still failing all you can do is report it to your
>ISP & get them to arrange a Openreach ADSL visit, if you haven't got
>such a socket you have gone as far as you can. DO NOT phone up BT
>yourself & try to arrange one, as that way it will be expensive (£60
>visit charge) & the chances are that you won't get your problem sorted
>as all you will get is a non ADSL trained engineer.
>
>It doesn't matter whather you are with BT Broadband, Yahoo, Business
>Broadband or any such named brands as you are still the customer of the
>ISP not BT directly & so will have to go via that ISP who should then
>progress your problem onwards..

Listen to this guy.

I lost synchronisation on a regular basis from 20th December, then lost
complete ADSL connection for the last 4 days. Bugger was the Christmas
and New Year week ends exacerbating the problem with no BT ADSL
engineers around.

I got my ISP Help Desk to raise and log a fault with BT. I see they
sorted me out today.

Your broadband contract is with your ISP, and, if they are not into LLU,
then they contract with BT to provide the BB infrastructure from you to
your ISP's servers. You need to contact your ISP.

--
John Clark

> I lost synchronisation on a regular basis from 20th December, then lost
> complete ADSL connection for the last 4 days. Bugger was the Christmas
> and New Year week ends exacerbating the problem with no BT ADSL
> engineers around.
>
> I got my ISP Help Desk to raise and log a fault with BT. I see they
> sorted me out today.
>
> Your broadband contract is with your ISP, and, if they are not into LLU,
> then they contract with BT to provide the BB infrastructure from you to
> your ISP's servers. You need to contact your ISP.
>
> --
> John Clark

Yeh. I did raise a call with my ISP whio raised a call with BT.

An engineer went to the exchange to reset one of the cards but this
made bugger all difference so I'm waiting for my ISP to chase BT down
again.

I know you're contract is with your ISP but is anyone (ISP or BT)
obliged to compensate you for loss of service? Isn't there a thing with
BT that if your voice phone is down for over a certain time they'll
compensate you?

paulfoel wrote:
>> I lost synchronisation on a regular basis from 20th December, then
>> lost complete ADSL connection for the last 4 days. Bugger was the
>> Christmas and New Year week ends exacerbating the problem with no
>> BT ADSL engineers around.
>>
>> I got my ISP Help Desk to raise and log a fault with BT. I see they
>> sorted me out today.
>>
>> Your broadband contract is with your ISP, and, if they are not
>> into LLU, then they contract with BT to provide the BB
>> infrastructure from you to your ISP's servers. You need to contact
>> your ISP.
>>
>> --
>> John Clark
>
> Yeh. I did raise a call with my ISP whio raised a call with BT.
>
> An engineer went to the exchange to reset one of the cards but this
> made bugger all difference so I'm waiting for my ISP to chase BT
> down again.
>
> I know you're contract is with your ISP but is anyone (ISP or BT)
> obliged to compensate you for loss of service? Isn't there a thing
> with BT that if your voice phone is down for over a certain time
> they'll compensate you?

There is no S(ervice)L(evel)A(greement) for ADSL so if you do get any
money back it is thru your ISP's goodwill more than any guarantee.

<SNIP>

>>
>> Yeh. I did raise a call with my ISP whio raised a call with BT.
>>
>> An engineer went to the exchange to reset one of the cards but this
>> made bugger all difference so I'm waiting for my ISP to chase BT
>> down again.
>>
>> I know you're contract is with your ISP but is anyone (ISP or BT)
>> obliged to compensate you for loss of service? Isn't there a thing
>> with BT that if your voice phone is down for over a certain time
>> they'll compensate you?
>
>There is no S(ervice)L(evel)A(greement) for ADSL so if you do get any
>money back it is thru your ISP's goodwill more than any guarantee.
>
>
Agreed..
Your BT contract is to provide a line for voice only (that is base-band
voice, NOT anything else), and yes, if it is off long enough, then they
do compensate you. - Although, if say you accept a divert to a mobile,
you will not be charged the 'divert' part of the call, and will lose
some, if not all, compensation.

Your ADSL/Broadband contract is with the ISP.
They have their own SLA, which is normally worded that if the 'fault' is
outside their control, i.e.. a BT problem, then they are not liable for
the lose of service.

Philip Partridge

On 6-Jan-2006, Phil Partridge <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> An engineer went to the exchange to reset one of the cards but this
> >> made bugger all difference so I'm waiting for my ISP to chase BT
> >> down again.

My experience has been that underground cables can get
water in them, particularly during the winter months, phone
still works fine but high frequencies get attenuated, thus
loss of sync. BT's response is usually to give you "another
pair on the same cable" which of course has the same
moisture problem. Thus it's not the NTU in the exchange, you
think your modem is ok, but can't prove it, and you are
stuck in a no mans land between a call centre in Bangalor
and BT.
BT have the equipment to characterise the line for frequency
response and noise margin, but it is generally in short supply
and not available for services for domestic circuits, only
occasionally to engineers dealing with wires only and private
(corporate) circuits.
Once the line has been tested it is down to the terminating
equipment at each end, which is not immune to failure,
going marginal, or lightning strikes.