ADSL Signal

I appreciate there are many factors that can contribute to poor download
speeds but if my line is ADSL enabled should my modem report a DSL
connection regardless or does the line need certain minimum qualities.

Reason I ask is that my daughter has been having problems with her Pipex
connection for over 6 months now; mostly it does not work at all but on
occasions it does.

Her Linksys modem/router has a DSL indicator light and an internet
indicator light; I assume if the DSL light illuminates if the modem is
set correctly then the internet light will illuminate.

Most of the time neither light illuminates.

Her modem works fine at my home (also Pipex), my modem does not work at
her address. We have tried different filters and plugged the modem into
the test socket behind the main BT socket faceplate.

Poor connections I can understand can have many causes but I would have
thought a DSL connection should at least indicate on my modem or am I wrong.

Geoff Lane

"Geoff Lane" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eu7u5v$ls6$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I appreciate there are many factors that can contribute to poor download
>speeds but if my line is ADSL enabled should my modem report a DSL
>connection regardless or does the line need certain minimum qualities.
>
> Reason I ask is that my daughter has been having problems with her Pipex
> connection for over 6 months now; mostly it does not work at all but on
> occasions it does.
>
> Her Linksys modem/router has a DSL indicator light and an internet
> indicator light; I assume if the DSL light illuminates if the modem is set
> correctly then the internet light will illuminate.
>
> Most of the time neither light illuminates.
>
> Her modem works fine at my home (also Pipex), my modem does not work at
> her address. We have tried different filters and plugged the modem into
> the test socket behind the main BT socket faceplate.
>
> Poor connections I can understand can have many causes but I would have
> thought a DSL connection should at least indicate on my modem or am I
> wrong.

As I understand it, the DSL light indicates that a DSL carrier signal is
present *and that it is sufficiently strong to be useable*. It is possible
for a modem or router to be connected to a DSL-enabled line with a
borderline signal and to find that the light sometimes lights and sometimes
doesn't, if the strength is fluctuating due to changing condictions such as
an unfiltered phone being picked up.

The Internet light (and not all routers have one of these) indicates that
the router has successfully logged on. As an aside, if DSL is lit and
Internet is not, the first thing to check is that the username, and password
are correct.

Most routers can report the DSL strength, typically on a status page of the
router's web interface. You are looking for parameters such as:

- uptream/downstream speed
- uptream/downstream attenuation (the smaller these numbers, the better)
- uptream/downstream noise margin (the larger these numbers, the better)

If you locate these details in the router's web page, post them here so one
of us can decide whether the signal is too weak, and maybe offer some
suggestions for how to improve things. Ideally, determine the values at both
your daughter's house (where there's an intermittent problem) and at your
house (where everything works), for comparison.

If you've tried the router connected to your daughter's test socket, you've
probably eliminated as much of the wiring as you can do easily. However, if
there is any further wiring to the rest of the house (ie more than just the
cable coming into the socket from the outside world) then there could be a
problem there. Check the router's attentuation/margin with all phones and
their associated microfilters unplugged from their respective sockets.

Martin Underwood wrote:

>> I appreciate there are many factors that can contribute to poor download
>> speeds

>> Reason I ask is that my daughter has been having problems with her Pipex
>> connection for over 6 months now; mostly it does not work at all but on
>> occasions it does.

> As I understand it, the DSL light indicates that a DSL carrier signal is
> present *and that it is sufficiently strong to be useable*.

> Most routers can report the DSL strength, typically on a status page of the
> router's web interface. You are looking for parameters such as:
>
> - uptream/downstream speed
> - uptream/downstream attenuation (the smaller these numbers, the better)
> - uptream/downstream noise margin (the larger these numbers, the better)
>
> If you locate these details in the router's web page, post them here so one
> of us can decide whether the signal is too weak, and maybe offer some
> suggestions for how to improve things.

I'll try and do this, trouble is she needs to keep the modem connected
whilst Pipex attempt to resolve the problem; I'm not too far away but
far enough that I can't easily get hold of her router for test purposes.

I am assuming that with no DSL connection all these figures would
probably be zero anyway.

> If you've tried the router connected to your daughter's test socket, you've
> probably eliminated as much of the wiring as you can do easily. However, if
> there is any further wiring to the rest of the house (ie more than just the
> cable coming into the socket from the outside world) then there could be a
> problem there. Check the router's attentuation/margin with all phones and
> their associated microfilters unplugged from their respective sockets.

There is just one socket coming in to the house, a three way adapter
(Not ideal I know but will address this when the ADSL gets sorted) then
feeds a phone, a freeview box and the filter for ADSL. There are no
other feeds from this one socket.

Obviously all these have been unplugged at various times for testing so
when plugged in to test socket behind faceplate the router was the only
device fitted.

Thanks for very quick reply :-)

Geoff Lane

"Geoff Lane" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eu82jb$sj5$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Martin Underwood wrote:
>
> I am assuming that with no DSL connection all these figures would probably
> be zero anyway.

Not necessarily. It's possible for the DSL light to be off and still get
meaningful numbers from the router. And the figures for when there is a DSL
light (ie things are just on the right side of borderline) are probably very
useful to know, because they could indicate that at best things are very
weak. From memory, I think that the time to start worrying is if attenuation
is greater than about 65 dB and/or noise margin is less than 6 dB.


> There is just one socket coming in to the house, a three way adapter (Not
> ideal I know but will address this when the ADSL gets sorted) then feeds a
> phone, a freeview box and the filter for ADSL. There are no other feeds
> from this one socket.

That simplifies life a lot! You can say with a clear conscience that you
have tested the internal house wiring and eliminated it. If there is a DSL
signal strength issue, it must be between the master socket and the
exchange, and therefore BT's responsibility to fix. However, you'll need to
get Pipex to commission BT to investigate, rather than calling BT yourself,
otherwise BT will charge you for a visit. Do you know if Pipex have
commissioned BT to do a line test from th exchange?

I've just had a thought. It might be better to have the microfilter plugged
directly into the socket, with the splitter plugged into the microfilter to
feed te phone and freeview box. That way, the DSL signal only goes to the
router and not also along the lengths of cable to the filters for the phone
and the freeview box. However that's just general advice for making the best
of a weak signal; I think you've already shown that even with all that
wiring disconnected you still have a problem.

Geoff Lane, in article <eu82jb$sj5$(E-Mail Removed)>, says...

>
>There is just one socket coming in to the house, a three way adapter
>(Not ideal I know but will address this when the ADSL gets sorted) then
>feeds a phone, a freeview box and the filter for ADSL. There are no
>other feeds from this one socket.

Do you have this backwards? The "ADSL filter" does nothing in
the line to the ADSL modem, except changing the BT socket for
an RJ11. The filtered part is required in the connection to
the phone sockets only, to filter off the high frequency ADSL
signal from the phone and phone's impulse noise, etc. from the
ADSL band. You should not connect any phones, or phone-type
devices such as your freeview box's modem, to an unfiltered
socket.

In your example, you need both the freeview box and the phone
fed from the filtered output of the ADSL splitter/filter. Do
not connect these or any other phone-type device before the
ADSL splitter/filter. Is this what you have wrong - your
multi-way phone adaptors before the ADSL filter?

The ADSL modem has its own filter that is the opposite of the
splitter filter. It filters off the DC to 4Khz part of the
combined signal from the ADSL modem circuitry. This is why
you can connect this directly into the test socket behind the
faceplate using a BT to RJ11 converter, or suitable converter
cable.

Replace the faceplate of the master socket with a good one
incorporating a filter (I use ADSLnation XTE2005). This has
two sockets on the front, one for telephones and one
exclusively for the ADSL modem. Plug the phone and freeview
box wires into the BT socket via a two way adapter. Later, if
necessary, you can permanently connect the phone-type devices
to the pin 2, 3 and 5 connections on the back of this
faceplate for a neater installation.

--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.

JohnW wrote:


>> There is just one socket coming in to the house, a three way adapter
>> (Not ideal I know but will address this when the ADSL gets sorted) then
>> feeds a phone, a freeview box and the filter for ADSL. There are no
>> other feeds from this one socket.
>
> Do you have this backwards? The "ADSL filter" does nothing in
> the line to the ADSL modem, except changing the BT socket for
> an RJ11. The filtered part is required in the connection to
> the phone sockets only, to filter off the high frequency ADSL
> signal from the phone and phone's impulse noise, etc. from the
> ADSL band. You should not connect any phones, or phone-type
> devices such as your freeview box's modem, to an unfiltered
> socket.

It's funny, I do understand the theory but when someone asks, as you
have done, there is suddenly doubt in my mind.

I'm not at her address at the moment so cannot check but I have tried
every permutation and bearing in mind I have tried disconnecting every
phone type device and only had the filter (Tried three) into the main
socket and the ADSL modem into that and still no connection then that
really eliminates an incorrect connection.

She has no additional wiring feeding any other rooms from her main BT
box other than the previous occupiers merely had a DIY extension cable
running upstairs but connected via a multiplug into the main socket.
Obviously once disconnected it is not a factor.

At my own home address I did have an extension phones plugged in to an
unfiltered socket; both worked fine but ADSL dropped when phone used, it
did go unnoticed for a while though but cured with extra filter :-)

> Replace the faceplate of the master socket with a good one
> incorporating a filter (I use ADSLnation XTE2005).

Tried that option also, used a BT faceplate with adsl and phone outlet.

I personally think Pipex have messed up somewhere, she is currently on a
256kbps arrangement, now I'm not familiar with how these different
speeds work but Pipex don't offer that service anymore, it is all adsl
max so I am wondering how speeds are actually slowed down.

Also, and this is one of the reasons I suspect a Pipex problem; both she
and I are with Pipex, whilst fiddling with her modem settings at my
address I inadvertently left my logon details in her modem and a few
weeks back it connected at her address with my logon details.

I cannot do likewise with her logon details at my address.

Geoff Lane

Geoff Lane, in article <euamai$1dt$(E-Mail Removed)>, says...
>
>I'm not at her address at the moment so cannot check but I have tried
>every permutation and bearing in mind I have tried disconnecting every
>phone type device and only had the filter (Tried three) into the main
>socket and the ADSL modem into that and still no connection then that
>really eliminates an incorrect connection.

Correct, the ADSL filter would only be functioning as a socket
converter so the connection to the ADSL modem would be as good
as you can get. If you get no ADSL signal here, there isn't
one - or the modem is faulty. Try changing to a £20 ADSL
router as I suggested previously. If this doesn't work I
would change ISP for a more clueful one... At least then you
will have a good router installation with better ISP.

Is she in a multi-occupancy block of flats? I ask because the
wiring to each individual flat is often done from a central
point where the multi-pair cable arrives. The wiring to each
flat is often done by a builder and is of doubtful quality,
even though, technically, it is part of the BT network and is
supposed to have been checked...
>
>I personally think Pipex have messed up somewhere, she is currently on a
>256kbps arrangement, now I'm not familiar with how these different
>speeds work but Pipex don't offer that service anymore, it is all adsl
>max so I am wondering how speeds are actually slowed down.

The old 256K service would probably not be on ADSLmax. It is
now more expensive to provision so that is probably why it
isn't working... ADSLmax runs the line from the exchange
(actually, the DSLAM) to the customer as fast as is possible,
given its error performance as measured by the BT equipment.
If the ISP wants to offer a slower service, they can
"throttle" the connection at their end, reducing the effective
bandwidth, putting it simply.

>Also, and this is one of the reasons I suspect a Pipex problem; both she
>and I are with Pipex, whilst fiddling with her modem settings at my
>address I inadvertently left my logon details in her modem and a few
>weeks back it connected at her address with my logon details.
>
>I cannot do likewise with her logon details at my address.

Look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ for a list of ISPs you
should change to :-) You have no reason to remain with one
offering poor service. I've never done an installation on
Pipex recently so can't advise about their support quality.
--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.

JohnW wrote:

> Correct, the ADSL filter would only be functioning as a socket
> converter so the connection to the ADSL modem would be as good
> as you can get. If you get no ADSL signal here, there isn't
> one - or the modem is faulty.

A couple of months back I tried my Vigor 2600 modem at her address, that
didn't work either though at that time I was getting a dsl light on both
routers.


> Is she in a multi-occupancy block of flats?

No, a town house and seeing where it enters the house there are no
obvious extra connections.

> The old 256K service would probably not be on ADSLmax. It is
> now more expensive to provision so that is probably why it
> isn't working...

My suspicion is that is a possibility.

> Look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ for a list of ISPs you
> should change to :-) You have no reason to remain with one
> offering poor service. I've never done an installation on
> Pipex recently so can't advise about their support quality.

She is reluctant to change whilst there is a problem as if it is a line
fault then the problem would still be there with a different ISP.

Geoff Lane

"Geoff Lane" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eu7u5v$ls6$(E-Mail Removed)...
[snip]
> Reason I ask is that my daughter has been having problems with her Pipex
> connection for over 6 months now; mostly it does not work at all but on
> occasions it does.

If you haven't already, try your own modem(/router) and filter (which
clearly work), with nothing else connected to the line. Make sure Pipex know
you have done this, and ask them to escalate the issue to BT and provide a
date by which you can expect the issue to be addressed. If they won't
escalate, leave. If they won't give you a date, suggest a fortnight. If
nothing happens by the date, leave - you really don't have much choice.

Alex

Geoff Lane, in article <eubfff$lj6$(E-Mail Removed)>, says...
>
>She is reluctant to change whilst there is a problem as if it is a line
>fault then the problem would still be there with a different ISP.

I'd pick an ISP with a better service record. Why stay with
one that isn't doing the job? She clearly has no reason to
keep paying Pipex the money. :-) ... I assume she is outside
the minimum contract period so there is no reason not to
switch.

A new ISP would probably be better motivated to get the new
connection working. At least, their service people will be
working on the job to get the income stream started. Since
they have a call open with BT to switch the service, they can
get it fixed more easily. I've had performance figures
improve when the customer switches ISP (but I tidied up the
wiring and filters at the same time, not to mention fitting a
router so...).

All she has to do is ask Pipex for the MAC (Migtation
Authorisation Code) number for the ADSL service and, armed
with this number, give it to a new ISP who will do all the
work to switch the service to them. There is much advice
available regarding the choice of ISP.
--
JohnW.
Replace the obvious with co.uk in 2 places to mail me.