ADSL only works when phone line used

My girlfriend's daughter has been without broadband since she moved into her
new flat in April. She was using Tiscali before the move and continued with
them in the new place but broadband has not worked at all since she moved
in. I was round there at the weekend trying to see if there was anything I
could do to get things working, changing filters and cables, swapping the
router for a USB modem and so on. Basically there is no synch on the line.

So I got her to call Tiscali while I was there. Normally she phones them on
her mobile but this time I got her to phone them from the landline as it's
an 0870 number. After about 30 seconds on the line the ADSL synch light went
solid on the modem and the laptop connected. I told her to hang up the call
as it was now working but when she hung up the synch dropped again.

It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use - picking up
the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1" and leaving the phone
off the hook keeps her connection working. This is repeatable and she has
been using the connection like this since Saturday. Now there is light at
the end of the tunnel she is keen to get this fixed for good but the Tiscali
help droids can't do any better than work from their stupid script so trying
to have an intelligent conversation, armed with this new information, is a
complete waste of time.

So the question is - knowing this diagnostic information, what is the likely
cause of the problem and the probable remedy? Is this something that needs
sorting at the exchange? Is this a Tiscali exclusive problem, BT only (she
pays BT line rental but her voice calls are routed via Tiscali) or a bit of
both? I don't know whether is she is LLU'd or not. She has been so
frustrated with Tiscali about the four months of unresolved problem but I'm
guessing she would be no better off changing ISPs while this particular
problem prevails.

"Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
news:44e96f7d$0$3584$(E-Mail Removed)...
> It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use - picking
> up the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1" and leaving the
> phone off the hook keeps her connection working. This is repeatable and
> she has been using the connection like this since Saturday. Now there is
> light at the end of the tunnel she is keen to get this fixed for good but
> the Tiscali help droids can't do any better than work from their stupid
> script so trying to have an intelligent conversation, armed with this new
> information, is a complete waste of time.
>
> So the question is - knowing this diagnostic information, what is the
> likely cause of the problem and the probable remedy? Is this something
> that needs sorting at the exchange? Is this a Tiscali exclusive problem,
> BT only (she pays BT line rental but her voice calls are routed via
> Tiscali) or a bit of both? I don't know whether is she is LLU'd or not.
> She has been so frustrated with Tiscali about the four months of
> unresolved problem but I'm guessing she would be no better off changing
> ISPs while this particular problem prevails.


Have you done the testing from the master test socket with a known good
filter and telephone?
If you have, report the fault to Tiscali who will check their equipment and
if required, will pass it on to BTs Openreach. Seems like an external line
fault masked by using the voice line. Can you hear any noise when listen
after dialling a digit?
Fred

Tiny Tim wrote:
> It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use - picking up
> the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1" and leaving the phone
> off the hook keeps her connection working. This is repeatable and she has
> been using the connection like this since Saturday. Now there is light at
> the end of the tunnel she is keen to get this fixed for good but the Tiscali
> help droids can't do any better than work from their stupid script so trying
> to have an intelligent conversation, armed with this new information, is a
> complete waste of time.

Does it work if you unplug the phone completely?

Geoff

The Simpsons wrote:
> "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote in message
> news:44e96f7d$0$3584$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use -
>> picking up the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1"
>> and leaving the phone off the hook keeps her connection working.
>> This is repeatable and she has been using the connection like this
>> since Saturday. Now there is light at the end of the tunnel she is
>> keen to get this fixed for good but the Tiscali help droids can't do
>> any better than work from their stupid script so trying to have an
>> intelligent conversation, armed with this new information, is a
>> complete waste of time. So the question is - knowing this diagnostic
>> information, what is the
>> likely cause of the problem and the probable remedy? Is this
>> something that needs sorting at the exchange? Is this a Tiscali
>> exclusive problem, BT only (she pays BT line rental but her voice
>> calls are routed via Tiscali) or a bit of both? I don't know whether
>> is she is LLU'd or not. She has been so frustrated with Tiscali
>> about the four months of unresolved problem but I'm guessing she
>> would be no better off changing ISPs while this particular problem
>> prevails.
>
>
> Have you done the testing from the master test socket with a known
> good filter and telephone?
> If you have, report the fault to Tiscali who will check their
> equipment and if required, will pass it on to BTs Openreach. Seems
> like an external line fault masked by using the voice line. Can you
> hear any noise when listen after dialling a digit?
> Fred

I have not tested with a "known good" filter but she has tried different
filters including brand new ones sent by Tiscali, along with a new modem, in
response to one of the several times she rang to complain of the unresolved
problem. Unfortunately the filter is squeezed beside a wardrobe that has to
be completely unpacked and moved before the filter can be accessed. The
property is rented and the wardrobe is part of the furnishings and already
showing signs of stress from being moved too often so it is not an easy task
to repeatedly fiddle with the connections.

I have not had the receiver up to my ear so I don't know if there is any
noise but I couldn't hear anything from across the room while the receiver
was off the hook until the BT announcement cut in about the unrecognised
number and later the "siren" sound of the open line. While those sounds were
audible the ADSL connection held up OK.

As she lives 25 miles from me it is not a 5 minute job to nip round and
check things out in person. She is not at all technicaly minded and trying
to explain things over the phone is not easy.

Geoff Winkless wrote:
> Tiny Tim wrote:
>> It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use -
>> picking up the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1"
>> and leaving the phone off the hook keeps her connection working.
>> This is repeatable and she has been using the connection like this
>> since Saturday. Now there is light at the end of the tunnel she is
>> keen to get this fixed for good but the Tiscali help droids can't do
>> any better than work from their stupid script so trying to have an
>> intelligent conversation, armed with this new information, is a
>> complete waste of time.
>
> Does it work if you unplug the phone completely?
>
> Geoff

A good question! That didn't form part of my testing at the weekend but I
would think she has tried that in the past in following troubleshooting
steps with Tiscali. I'll mention it to her though and see if she can try it
out. My guess would be that it will make no difference but it's worth a try.

On 21-Aug-2006, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:

> BT only (she
> pays BT line rental but her voice calls are routed via Tiscali) or a bit of
> both?

As it only seems to affect ADSL it's for the ISP to get fixed and it's
Tiscali you need to escalate it with.
That said it may be a dry/open joint, but as it isn't affecting the phone
raising it with BT isn't going to get very far.
Changing providers isn't going to fix a physical/technical fault.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:47:21 +0100, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:

>I have not tested with a "known good" filter but she has tried different
>filters including brand new ones sent by Tiscali,

These will be returns. Believe me

You simply need her to plug the ADSL modem/router into the master
socket with NO other phones/faxes/whatever connected.

Does it work?

Yes - Then plug a filter into the master socket and connect a phone &
ADSL modem/router to it. Do NOT connect any extensions. Does it work?
Yes - connect the extensions and repeat - if it fails its house
wiring to blame.
No - change filter for a NEW one and repeat. Still fails it is a
BT problem.


No - It is a BT problem unless anyone has hardwired extensions into
the back of the master socket. Unscrew the front plate and remove it.
Connect directly into the socket you see there. If it still fails and
you haven't been messing with the back of the master socket then BT
will have to come out.

Hopefully the above makes sense? It sounds like a ring wire problem to
me frankly and I think you need to eliminate the house wiring by
getting to the master socket.

HTH.
--
John Naismith

John Naismith wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:47:21 +0100, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:
>
>> I have not tested with a "known good" filter but she has tried
>> different filters including brand new ones sent by Tiscali,
>
> These will be returns. Believe me
>
> You simply need her to plug the ADSL modem/router into the master
> socket with NO other phones/faxes/whatever connected.
>
> Does it work?
>
> Yes - Then plug a filter into the master socket and connect a phone &
> ADSL modem/router to it. Do NOT connect any extensions. Does it work?
> Yes - connect the extensions and repeat - if it fails its house
> wiring to blame.
> No - change filter for a NEW one and repeat. Still fails it is a
> BT problem.
>
>
> No - It is a BT problem unless anyone has hardwired extensions into
> the back of the master socket. Unscrew the front plate and remove it.
> Connect directly into the socket you see there. If it still fails and
> you haven't been messing with the back of the master socket then BT
> will have to come out.
>
> Hopefully the above makes sense? It sounds like a ring wire problem to
> me frankly and I think you need to eliminate the house wiring by
> getting to the master socket.
>
> HTH.

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking for certain that the problem was at the
exchange end but you've given me a lot more to think about. Of course, as
per my earlier post further buggering about with the socket will be a right
PITA but I understand the need to make further checks. I haven't been able
to look into the exact nature of the wiring in the flat. There is an
extension but it is not via a plug pushed into what appears to be the naster
socket so maybe there is some invisible wiring at the back of the box or
some other feed that I don't know about. The property is an upstairs flat
from a converted house so it's anybody's guess exactly what route the phone
wiring has taken.

Tiscali have raised a fault with BT (I believe) and I think BT will probably
have a chance to look into this sooner than I will so maybe it will get
fixed without my further involvement. Until it gets fixed by BT or I get a
chance for another look there won't be anything more I can do so thanks
again for the suggestions and I'll pass them on to the account holder.

Regards,
Tim.

Tiny Tim wrote:
> My girlfriend's daughter has been without broadband since she moved
> into her new flat in April. She was using Tiscali before the move
> and
> continued with them in the new place but broadband has not worked at
> all since she moved in. I was round there at the weekend trying to
> see if there was anything I could do to get things working, changing
> filters and cables, swapping the router for a USB modem and so on.
> Basically there is no synch on the line.
> So I got her to call Tiscali while I was there. Normally she phones
> them on her mobile but this time I got her to phone them from the
> landline as it's an 0870 number. After about 30 seconds on the line
> the ADSL synch light went solid on the modem and the laptop
> connected. I told her to hang up the call as it was now working but
> when she hung up the synch dropped again.
> It appears that ADSL will only work if the phone line is in use -
> picking up the receiver is not enough on its own but dialling "1"
> and
> leaving the phone off the hook keeps her connection working. This is
> repeatable and she has been using the connection like this since
> Saturday. Now there is light at the end of the tunnel she is keen
> to
> get this fixed for good but the Tiscali help droids can't do any
> better than work from their stupid script so trying to have an
> intelligent conversation, armed with this new information, is a
> complete waste of time.
> So the question is - knowing this diagnostic information, what is
> the
> likely cause of the problem and the probable remedy? Is this
> something that needs sorting at the exchange? Is this a Tiscali
> exclusive problem, BT only (she pays BT line rental but her voice
> calls are routed via Tiscali) or a bit of both? I don't know whether
> is she is LLU'd or not. She has been so frustrated with Tiscali
> about
> the four months of unresolved problem but I'm guessing she would be
> no better off changing ISPs while this particular problem prevails.

It does sound as though your daughter has got a H(igh)R(esistance)
connection somewhere, now it could be inside the house but normally it
would be outside on the BT network somewhere.

This leaves you 2 things to do, firstly make doubly sure that the
wiring inside the house is up to scratch & secondly you'll have to
hound Tiscalli to get a DSL trained Engineer to investigate your
problem. Do not go direct to BT as they are only (sub) contracted to
give you dial tone it has to be via Tiscalli as you are their
customer.

Best of luck...

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On 21-Aug-2006, "Tiny Tim" <.> wrote:
>
>> BT only (she
>> pays BT line rental but her voice calls are routed via Tiscali) or a
>> bit of both?
>
> As it only seems to affect ADSL it's for the ISP to get fixed and it's
> Tiscali you need to escalate it with.
> That said it may be a dry/open joint, but as it isn't affecting the
> phone raising it with BT isn't going to get very far.
> Changing providers isn't going to fix a physical/technical fault.

Indeed, but changing to Zen would make the process easier.

--
Old Codger
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