ADSL Max speeds - Are my stats ok?

I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.

The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on any
tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up is ok
at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I should
get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg for
my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if this
was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants 2meg
connection?

My stats are:

Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)

Is there any advice on what I should do during this period to ensure I get
the highest possible rates in the end?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ian

Mr Wiffy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Tue, 20 Jun 2006:

>I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
>actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.
>
>The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on any
>tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up is ok
>at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I should
>get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg for
>my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if this
>was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
>over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants 2meg
>connection?

Hi Ian

Give it a little time. . . it usually takes about 3 days for the
throughput speed to start rising. With the line stats you quoted at a
sync rate of 8128 and if you're not experiencing frequent re-syncs or
dropouts, I'd say you can definitely expect better. If your line
couldn't cope with more than 2meg, I'd expect you to be syncing at a
much lower rate.

Keep watching it. . . if the speed doesn't rise, you'll still probably
have to wait the full 10 days before your ISP can raise a fault, as
before then BT regards the line as being in its "training" period. There
*was* a fault some people with "good" lines (me included!) fell foul of
recently, in which the router stayed rock-steady at 8128 but throughput
never rose beyond 2meg -- somehow the BT adaptation process never kicked
in -- but I believe that's supposed to be fixed now.

Some people advocate rebooting the router once a day during the training
period to "encourage" the BT system to take note but my ISP told me not
to do this. Either way, don't reboot several times in succession or it's
possible the BT system could interpret it as your router having trouble
at 8128 and set you to a lower speed.

The best thing to do at the moment is watch and wait. Good luck!

--
Nightowl

"Nightowl" <owl@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
| Mr Wiffy <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote on Tue, 20 Jun 2006:

snip

| Hi Ian
|
| Give it a little time. . . it usually takes about 3 days for the
| throughput speed to start rising. With the line stats you quoted at a
| sync rate of 8128 and if you're not experiencing frequent re-syncs or
| dropouts, I'd say you can definitely expect better. If your line
| couldn't cope with more than 2meg, I'd expect you to be syncing at a
| much lower rate.
|
| Keep watching it. . . if the speed doesn't rise, you'll still probably
| have to wait the full 10 days before your ISP can raise a fault, as
| before then BT regards the line as being in its "training" period. There
| *was* a fault some people with "good" lines (me included!) fell foul of
| recently, in which the router stayed rock-steady at 8128 but throughput
| never rose beyond 2meg -- somehow the BT adaptation process never kicked
| in -- but I believe that's supposed to be fixed now.
|
| Some people advocate rebooting the router once a day during the training
| period to "encourage" the BT system to take note but my ISP told me not
| to do this. Either way, don't reboot several times in succession or it's
| possible the BT system could interpret it as your router having trouble
| at 8128 and set you to a lower speed.
|
| The best thing to do at the moment is watch and wait. Good luck!
|
| --
| Nightowl

Thanks for the info Nightowl. I am fairly technically minded with these
things but not having had ADSL Max before, I wasn't sure what to expect. To
be honest, anything is better than my cr*p TalkTalk 1meg service at my
previous address (slow and unreliable - AWFUL Customer service - never
again!), but I just want the highest throughput possible here, and was
concerned that something was "throttling" it. Router is as close to the
wall socket as possible, as recommended, so should not be any issues there.

Thanks again for such a quick and full reply mate.

Best wishes.

Ian

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:57:17 +0100, "Mr Wiffy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
>actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.
>
>The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on any
>tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up is ok
>at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I should
>get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg for
>my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if this
>was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
>over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants 2meg
>connection?
>
>My stats are:
>
>Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
>Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)

With those values, you should get much more than 2Mb.

If it is synching at 8Mb and the SNR is still 16dB, you would easily
get the full 8Mb.

But those figures are almost certainly wrong. May I hazard a guess
that you have a Netgear router with the firmware it came with still
installed?

I think you have both the up/down and the SNR/attenuation reversed,
and those are common with the netgear using older firmware.

So what you probably really have is

Attenuation down 29dB Up 16dB
SNR Down 6dB Up 22dB.

This makes sense, because ADSLMax will normally attempt to synch at
the highest speed that gives a downstream attenuation of around 6dB.

But you should still finish up with something around 6-7Mb, at least,
given those figures.

The upstream figures really hardly matter, as they are only giving a
maximum of 448K upstream, and if you can get anything over 1Mb down,
you will get that much up.

>
>Is there any advice on what I should do during this period to ensure I get
>the highest possible rates in the end?
>

Reboot once per day, otherwise leave it on 24 hours per day for the
first 10 days.

After that, continue to reboot at least once per day until the "max
stable rate" is set. This is not actually the rate at which you
synch, but is a rate set in increments of 500K, at the next highest
value below what you consistently synch at (less overheads). That is
the maximum throughput you will actually get.

Plusnet have a page on their site where they list your current max
stable rate (which is set by BT, not them), but I don't know if Pipex
show it anywhere.

That rate will change if you synch at a different speed - any brief
lower synch will reduce it, but to increase you need every connection
over a three day period to be at a higher speed.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
FOR SALE: Iraqi rifle. Never fired. Dropped once.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

In article <R6-(E-Mail Removed)>, Mr Wiffy says...
> I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
> actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.
>
> The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on any
> tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up is ok
> at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I should
> get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg for
> my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if this
> was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
> over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants 2meg
> connection?
>
> My stats are:
>
> Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
> Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)
>
> Is there any advice on what I should do during this period to ensure I get
> the highest possible rates in the end?
>
> Any help would be very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ian
>
>
>
far too early, the training period is only just getting going.

You should also occasionally cycle your router/modem properly by
disconnecting it for at least 40 minutes. That can help trigger the
process. If you have a stable, good quality line (your stats indicate
you do) it can take a while for the software to kick in and start
increasing your data throughput.

An occasional cycling and also some usage of the line helps.

FR

"Alex Heney" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
| On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:57:17 +0100, "Mr Wiffy"
| <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

snip

| >Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
| >Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)
|
| With those values, you should get much more than 2Mb.
|
| If it is synching at 8Mb and the SNR is still 16dB, you would easily
| get the full 8Mb.
|
| But those figures are almost certainly wrong. May I hazard a guess
| that you have a Netgear router with the firmware it came with still
| installed?

No, I have the latest firmware (v3.01.25)- I have always upgraded the
firmware to the latest (stable!) version, so these figures should in fact be
correct. I now have the following:

Attenuation: 19 db down, 5.5 db up
Noise margin: 13 db down, 29 db up
Synched at 8128 down, 448 up

Still getting same download speeds as before however, which is
disappointing......

| I think you have both the up/down and the SNR/attenuation reversed,
| and those are common with the netgear using older firmware.
|
| So what you probably really have is
|
| Attenuation down 29dB Up 16dB
| SNR Down 6dB Up 22dB.

Nope - see above. I am sure these figures must be correct.

| This makes sense, because ADSLMax will normally attempt to synch at
| the highest speed that gives a downstream attenuation of around 6dB.
|
| But you should still finish up with something around 6-7Mb, at least,
| given those figures.
|
| The upstream figures really hardly matter, as they are only giving a
| maximum of 448K upstream, and if you can get anything over 1Mb down,
| you will get that much up.

Thanks.

| Reboot once per day, otherwise leave it on 24 hours per day for the
| first 10 days.
|
| After that, continue to reboot at least once per day until the "max
| stable rate" is set. This is not actually the rate at which you
| synch, but is a rate set in increments of 500K, at the next highest
| value below what you consistently synch at (less overheads). That is
| the maximum throughput you will actually get.
|
| Plusnet have a page on their site where they list your current max
| stable rate (which is set by BT, not them), but I don't know if Pipex
| show it anywhere.

Not as far as I can tell at least.

| That rate will change if you synch at a different speed - any brief
| lower synch will reduce it, but to increase you need every connection
| over a three day period to be at a higher speed.
| --
| Alex Heney, Global Villager
| FOR SALE: Iraqi rifle. Never fired. Dropped once.
| To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom


Thanks for your very detailed advice Alex. It is very much appreciated.

Ian

"Flying Rat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
| In article <R6-(E-Mail Removed)>, Mr Wiffy says...
| > I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
| > actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.
| >
| > The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on
any
| > tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up
is ok
| > at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I
should
| > get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg
for
| > my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if
this
| > was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
| > over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants
2meg
| > connection?
| >
| > My stats are:
| >
| > Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
| > Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)
| >
| > Is there any advice on what I should do during this period to ensure I
get
| > the highest possible rates in the end?
| >
| > Any help would be very much appreciated.
| >
| > Thanks in advance.
| >
| > Ian
| >
| >
| >
| far too early, the training period is only just getting going.
|
| You should also occasionally cycle your router/modem properly by
| disconnecting it for at least 40 minutes. That can help trigger the
| process. If you have a stable, good quality line (your stats indicate
| you do) it can take a while for the software to kick in and start
| increasing your data throughput.
|
| An occasional cycling and also some usage of the line helps.
|
| FR

Thanks for the advice Flying Rat. I will try leaving the router off, as I
have not seen any disconnections in the events log, which I can attribute to
the software at the exchange. I do hope I don't fall into the apparently
early "bug" whereby the BT software "forgot" to do the raining period...

Cheers mate.

Ian

On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 00:57:17 +0100, "Mr Wiffy"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have recently signed up to Pipex ADSL Max. The provisioning date is
>actually today (20/6/06), although the line was "live" on Saturday.
>
>The line now syncs at 8128down, and 448 up, but my download speeds on any
>tester are pretty bad - I get about 2300kbps at best down, although up is ok
>at 360kbps. I know there is this 10 day testing period, but surely I should
>get better than 2meg speeds? Their predicted speeds were about 5.5-6meg for
>my line, and whilst I accept this cannot be guaranteed, I wondered if this
>was acceptable, considering the vast difference. Will my speeds pick up
>over the next 10 days, or am I likely to be stuck with a fairly pants 2meg
>connection?
>
>My stats are:
>
>Line attenuation: 22db (down) 6db (up)
>Noise margin 16db (down) 29db (up)
>
>Is there any advice on what I should do during this period to ensure I get
>the highest possible rates in the end?
>
>Any help would be very much appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Ian
>

Mr Wiffy wrote:
> No, I have the latest firmware (v3.01.25)- I have always upgraded the
> firmware to the latest (stable!) version, so these figures should in fact be
> correct. I now have the following:
>
> Attenuation: 19 db down, 5.5 db up
> Noise margin: 13 db down, 29 db up
> Synched at 8128 down, 448 up

The reason you're still locked at 2Mb is that BT build up a BRAS profile
which is essentially the maximum speed your line can handle data.

http://adslguide.org/newsarchive.asp?item=2693

This means that even though you're synching at a massive rate your ISP
is still being told by BT to throttle your traffic. This is supposedly
because if your line was only capable of 2Mb and the ISP sent data
faster the DSLAM at the exchange simply can't hold the data and you end
up having to resend packets - a pretty inefficient use of the limited
bandwidth.

Basically everyone else is right: do some voodoo incantations, reboot
the router once a day for a week and if it's still not improved submit a
fault with your ISP to escalate to BT.

Geoff

Flying Rat wrote:
> far too early, the training period is only just getting going.
>
> You should also occasionally cycle your router/modem properly by
> disconnecting it for at least 40 minutes. That can help trigger the
> process. If you have a stable, good quality line (your stats indicate
> you do) it can take a while for the software to kick in and start
> increasing your data throughput.
>
> An occasional cycling and also some usage of the line helps.
>
> FR

Quick question - why do you think that leaving the router turned off for
40 minutes would force a BRAS update? AIUI, BRAS updates are triggered
when the sync speed changes - instantly, in the case of syncing down;
anything from instantly to 3 days to never, in the case of syncing up.

I've never heard of BRAS updates being triggered by resyncs at the same
speed, before... except (possibly!) some sort of 3-day jeopardy system.

When I found myself stuck on the 2mbps BRAS rate, syncing reliably at
8128 (on my first day), I injected noise onto the line, forcing a drop
to ~5mbps, left it like that for a short while then removed the noise
and resynch'd at 8128. Not a solution for the faint-hearted! (You can
tell I'm impatient, can't you? ). Mind you, it seemed to work for
me... someone else on ADSLGuide tried it, and it didn't seem to work for
them, though.

So, yes, I think the esoteric incantations are your best bet . Start
off with a few LBRPs, then summon the Lord of Flies and get him to work
his magick on BT Wholesale's BRAS system... should do the trick.

xF,

....Nick