ADSL Idle Timeout - is there such a thing?

I have just migrated from BT Broadband to Metronet.
BT Broadband service performed error free for a year.
BT's Voyager 205 router never gave any trouble and only had to be
powered on / off when it was being moved for reasons unconnected with
the BB service.

On late evening 2/11/05 Adaware, Spybot and E-trust Antivirus all
updated and run. No virii, spyware - nothing detected so the router
had the new user ID and password entered and powered off waiting for
Wednesday - Metronet day. Wednesday morning - powered on router and
PC - access via Metronet working OK. But then I kept getting what
can only be described as 'hangs' when accessing 'the internet'. Much
diagnosis reveals that these hangs occur regularly, after 13.5
minutes of the BB connection being *idle*. Recovery is by powering
router off / on or disconnect / reconnect via router's web interface.
Prevention is achieved by checking a POP mailbox on a timed basis from
my mail reader.

Metronet have advised me to plug the router into NTE test socket, use
a different filter and disconnect all telephony and extension wiring.
This has been done but the problem still exists. Metronet have said
they will raise the problem with BTw. As far as I am concerned
Metronet are handling the problem well.

So the questions are (remembering that BT BB never ever had
problems):

Could the 'hangs' be a BT problem related to the migration or,
assuming it is coincident with but unrelated to the migration, is
there such a thing as idle timeouts on a BB connection? All
pointers to possible causes and ideas are welcome!

And does a migration (IPStream) involve any physical changes in the
telephone exchange ?

--
cerberus

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> is there such a thing as idle timeouts on a BB connection?

Indeed there is. Idle timeout can be initiated either by the ISP or
on your end. Log on to your router and check the settings. I
personally have mine set to 10 minutes idle, as I don't run anti-virus
or any other security software, I have to be careful about leaving
my router connected when I don't need it. Only takes a few secs
to re-connect.

>And does a migration (IPStream) involve any physical changes in the
>telephone exchange ?

No, normally they just update their routing tables to connect you to
different ISP.
Regards,
Martin

(E-Mail Removed)lid wrote:
snipped
>is there such a thing as idle timeouts on a BB connection? All
>pointers to possible causes and ideas are welcome!
snipped

I had a similar problem when I migrated from Pipex to Plusnet. It had me
foxed for a while. It was because when I updated the router with my new
logon & password, the router had put a default value in the timeout idle
field. So check your router settings first. Otherwise, as another poster
has said, it could be instigated my your ISP, Plusnet have now announced
that they are to do this on their BB+ account.....

Skokiaan wrote


> I had a similar problem when I migrated from Pipex to Plusnet. It had me
> foxed for a while. It was because when I updated the router with my new
> logon & password, the router had put a default value in the timeout idle
> field. So check your router settings first. Otherwise, as another poster
> has said, it could be instigated my your ISP, Plusnet have now announced
> that they are to do this on their BB+ account.....
>


So much for 'always on' broadband!


Haaaaaaaaa

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:53:01 +0000, Skokiaan
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>snipped
>>is there such a thing as idle timeouts on a BB connection? All
>>pointers to possible causes and ideas are welcome!
>snipped
>
>I had a similar problem when I migrated from Pipex to Plusnet. It had me
>foxed for a while. It was because when I updated the router with my new
>logon & password, the router had put a default value in the timeout idle
>field. So check your router settings first. Otherwise, as another poster
>has said, it could be instigated my your ISP, Plusnet have now announced
>that they are to do this on their BB+ account.....

Thanks. I have just read Plusnet FAQs re idle timeout and notice that
they claim that " majority of routers will reconnect themselves" And
then say "and older routers may need to be rebooted manually, or have
the settings changed to allow automatic re-connection".

As the information on the BT Voyager 205 is scant, has Plusnet given
any advice to their users on changes that may be necessary on a BT
Voyager 205 router. If they have searching their web site doesn't
reveal it.

--
cerberus

I have noticed when I reinstalled WinXp even though I have set my connection
never to hang-up, after a 20min period I was getting Idle timeout
disconnections, even though at the time I was downloading from usernet. It
took sometime to find out what was happening, just happened to be there when
the warning popped up telling me it was going to disconnect, and allowing me
to disable it. Don't know what program is doing this

Roy

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:53:01 +0000, Skokiaan
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>snipped
>>is there such a thing as idle timeouts on a BB connection? All
>>pointers to possible causes and ideas are welcome!
>snipped
>
>I had a similar problem when I migrated from Pipex to Plusnet. It had me
>foxed for a while. It was because when I updated the router with my new
>logon & password, the router had put a default value in the timeout idle
>field. So check your router settings first. Otherwise, as another poster
>has said, it could be instigated my your ISP, Plusnet have now announced
>that they are to do this on their BB+ account.....

Thanks. I have just read Plusnet FAQs re idle timeout and notice that
they claim that " majority of routers will reconnect themselves" And
then say "and older routers may need to be rebooted manually, or have
the settings changed to allow automatic re-connection".

As the information on the BT Voyager 205 is scant, has Plusnet given
any advice to their users on changes that may be necessary on a BT
Voyager 205 router. If they have searching their web site doesn't
reveal it.

--
cerberus

cerberus:
>As the information on the BT Voyager 205 is scant, has Plusnet given
>any advice to their users on changes that may be necessary on a BT
>Voyager 205 router. If they have searching their web site doesn't
>reveal it.

Not familiar with BT 205. But Plus Net says you can opt out of the Idle
Timeout (without any further explanation). Alternatively you can set your
mail client to check your email every 29 mins, or connect a VoIP / ATA and a
phone to your router (if it has ethernet port).
Regards,
Martin

(E-Mail Removed)lid wrote:

>As the information on the BT Voyager 205 is scant.

Try this site, tho' adsl idle timeout doesn't seem an issue with this
router, so your problem may lie elsewhere. You could try posting a question
on the adslguide technical forums. Or you may need a firmware update

http://corz.org/comms/hardware/route...ter.how-to.php
(beware of line wrap)

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:25:33 +0000, Skokiaan
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
>>As the information on the BT Voyager 205 is scant.
>
>Try this site, tho' adsl idle timeout doesn't seem an issue with this
>router, so your problem may lie elsewhere. You could try posting a question
>on the adslguide technical forums. Or you may need a firmware update
>
>http://corz.org/comms/hardware/route...ter.how-to.php
>(beware of line wrap)

Thanks for the link. I will study it and see what info I can extract
from the router. I have used the 'get dsl params' in the past but
nothing else.

The router has been updated to latest firmware v1.8 and this has made
no difference.

I agree that the adsl time out *seems* not to be the cause of the
problem, because I can, for example, collect mail, shut down windows /
pwr off PC at night and the next morning power on PC and collect mail.
(router is always left powered on). So the timeout doesn't occur under
those circumstances. I am currently investigating what happens when I
'kill' the internet with Zone Alarm's Big Red Button and then leave
the PC powered on.

The problem with the timeout parameter that has been taking my time
(and probably leading me astray), is that it is changing, some how or
other. Here's why I have been spending my time with this parameter.

Access to BT Voyager 205 router is via web interface with Firewall
(Zone Alarm Pro) *closed* down - not running at all.
Also when the last IE6 session closes, all cookies and temp files and
cache are deleted and scrubbed. So here is the sequence of events.
..
Close all open IE sessions.
Open one IE session and access the router web interface. This brings
up the 'quick start page' with options to disconnect (if connected) or
reconnect (if disconnected).
Click 'disconnect' and wait for response indicating disconnected.
Disconnect (physically unplug) the router from the phone line.
Log into router 'advanced functions.
Change PPP timeout to 'never' (from 'use global').
Save changes.
Display the timeout parameter again - still at 'never'
Return to 'quick start page'.
Close IE.
Power off router.
Power on router.
Open new IE session.
Log into router as before.
Display timeout parameter - still at 'never'.
Return to 'quick start page'.
Physically reconnect phone line to router and wait for adsl synch.
Click 'reconnect' and wait for the indication it is reconnected.
Close IE session
'The internet' now works - mail, usenet, web all OK.
Close down mail, (Pegasus), news reader (Agent) and all IE sessions.
Wait 15 minutes.
Open up newsreader - ask to download headers - says can access news
server. Try mail - cant access POP3 mailbox. Try IE - page not found.
Shut down mail, newsreader and all IE sessions.
Open up a new IE session and access router web interface 'quick start'
page.
Click 'disconnect' - wait for response.
Log into router advanced functions and display timeout parameter.
Parameter has changed to 'use global'
Close down web interface and IE session.
Disconnect router from phone line, power it off, power it on.
Open new IE session and log in to router interface and display timeout
parameter - it is STILL 'use global'.

I have also checked the timeout parameter after setting to 'never' as
above, doing some activity with the newsreader and then displaying it
as above * but before* the hang occurs. It displays as 'never'.

So something is changing the internals of the router at the time of
the hang. The hang is caused by inactivity over some length of time.

IMO the timeout parameter change is just something that is happening
when the hang occurs, but is not in itself the problem. (Reading about
the timeout parameter and the auto start parameter leads me to this
opinion). Because, under the circumstances explained above, when the
PC is left powered off, just after some internet activity, over night
and powered on the next morning the hang doesn't occur until I leave
the PC idle with no 'internet' activity.

Whilst I have been typing in this update the 3 minute interval 'keep
alive' access to a POP3 mailbox has been doing its stuff and the hang
has not occurred. Next move is to increase the interval to 6 minutes.

And when I have narrowed the time down I will swap the router for
anther BT Voyager 205 I have borrowed from my neighbour. But it will
want upgrading to v1.8. Sigh.

Any advice and hints and tips welcome. But please remember my setup
has worked faultlessly for 11.5 months on BT Broadband. This hanging
problem occurred *after the first ten minutes* of being connected to
my new ISP, after migration from BT.

--
cerberus