ADSL downstream noise margin

Hi

background

just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL distance
limits he was refused a connection.

now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown as 63 dB
and 3 dB margin.

We started with a Netgear ADSL wireless router (WGR614), but this unit wasnt
stable - it resets / reboots when more than 1 user is connected every 10 to
20 minutes to retrain on ADSL - which drops wireless connections, screws up
the DHCP tables and so on.

That has been swapped out for a 3com Officeconnect router which seems
better. Not had it long enough yet to be comfortable that it provides a
stable connection.

there isnt a master socket - at 1 point the incoming BT cable is in a wall
mount box, with various cables connected to support a home highway and the
ADSL host line. i have a micro filter on each extension socket for now.


So - the Q

what can we do to improve the noise margin?

Better filters? - if so recommendations?

would a different router show better margins, or is that dictated by the
DSLAM and we dont have any control? FWIW i couldnt find any test info about
ADSL routers on poor quality lines.

would removing the home highway ISDN (which is on another pair in the same
cable) improve things, and if so by how much?

Comments please to the group.

--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

stephen <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi
>
> background
>
> just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL distance
> limits he was refused a connection.
>
> now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown as 63 dB
> and 3 dB margin.
<snip>
> what can we do to improve the noise margin?
>
> Better filters? - if so recommendations?

First try unplugging everything from the sockets, including filters.
Now, see if that makes a difference.

stephen wrote:
> Hi
>
> background
>
> just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL
> distance limits he was refused a connection.
>
> now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown
> as 63 dB and 3 dB margin.
>
> We started with a Netgear ADSL wireless router (WGR614), but this
> unit wasnt stable - it resets / reboots when more than 1 user is
> connected every 10 to 20 minutes to retrain on ADSL - which drops
> wireless connections, screws up the DHCP tables and so on.
>
> That has been swapped out for a 3com Officeconnect router which
> seems better. Not had it long enough yet to be comfortable that it
> provides a stable connection.
>
> there isnt a master socket - at 1 point the incoming BT cable is in
> a wall mount box, with various cables connected to support a home
> highway and the ADSL host line. i have a micro filter on each
> extension socket for now.
>
>
> So - the Q
>
> what can we do to improve the noise margin?
>
> Better filters? - if so recommendations?
>
> would a different router show better margins, or is that dictated
> by the DSLAM and we dont have any control? FWIW i couldnt find any
> test info about ADSL routers on poor quality lines.
>
> would removing the home highway ISDN (which is on another pair in
> the same cable) improve things, and if so by how much?
>
> Comments please to the group.

It's not the DSLAM which is probably causing to problems, it's the spiders
web of wiring in your house. If it is as bad as you say contact your ISP to
get BT to visit, at the very least they should put in a NTE5 & a then you
can go on to try a faceplate filter.

It would be a very interesting experiment for you to disconnect _all_
extensions & then see what happens, but if as you say you don't have a
master/NTE5 this could be beyond your skill level...

"Kráftéé" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:417c031e$0$43611$(E-Mail Removed)...
> stephen wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > background
> >
> > just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL
> > distance limits he was refused a connection.
> >
> > now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown
> > as 63 dB and 3 dB margin.
> >
> > We started with a Netgear ADSL wireless router (WGR614), but this
> > unit wasnt stable - it resets / reboots when more than 1 user is
> > connected every 10 to 20 minutes to retrain on ADSL - which drops
> > wireless connections, screws up the DHCP tables and so on.
> >
> > That has been swapped out for a 3com Officeconnect router which
> > seems better. Not had it long enough yet to be comfortable that it
> > provides a stable connection.
> >
> > there isnt a master socket - at 1 point the incoming BT cable is in
> > a wall mount box, with various cables connected to support a home
> > highway and the ADSL host line. i have a micro filter on each
> > extension socket for now.
> >
> >
> > So - the Q
> >
> > what can we do to improve the noise margin?
> >
> > Better filters? - if so recommendations?
> >
> > would a different router show better margins, or is that dictated
> > by the DSLAM and we dont have any control? FWIW i couldnt find any
> > test info about ADSL routers on poor quality lines.
> >
> > would removing the home highway ISDN (which is on another pair in
> > the same cable) improve things, and if so by how much?
> >
> > Comments please to the group.
>
> It's not the DSLAM which is probably causing to problems, it's the spiders
> web of wiring in your house. If it is as bad as you say contact your ISP
to
> get BT to visit, at the very least they should put in a NTE5 & a then you
> can go on to try a faceplate filter.

yes - we may get BT out.

i was interested to find out if better filters may have an effect, or the
ISDN line.
>
> It would be a very interesting experiment for you to disconnect _all_
> extensions & then see what happens, but if as you say you don't have a
> master/NTE5 this could be beyond your skill level...

its not so much the skill level as the fact that it is 250 miles away.

--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

stephen wrote:
> "Kráftéé" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:417c031e$0$43611$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> stephen wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> background
>>>
>>> just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL
>>> distance limits he was refused a connection.
>>>
>>> now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown
>>> as 63 dB and 3 dB margin.
>>>
>>> We started with a Netgear ADSL wireless router (WGR614), but this
>>> unit wasnt stable - it resets / reboots when more than 1 user is
>>> connected every 10 to 20 minutes to retrain on ADSL - which drops
>>> wireless connections, screws up the DHCP tables and so on.
>>>
>>> That has been swapped out for a 3com Officeconnect router which
>>> seems better. Not had it long enough yet to be comfortable that it
>>> provides a stable connection.
>>>
>>> there isnt a master socket - at 1 point the incoming BT cable is
>>> in a wall mount box, with various cables connected to support a
>>> home highway and the ADSL host line. i have a micro filter on each
>>> extension socket for now.
>>>
>>>
>>> So - the Q
>>>
>>> what can we do to improve the noise margin?
>>>
>>> Better filters? - if so recommendations?
>>>
>>> would a different router show better margins, or is that dictated
>>> by the DSLAM and we dont have any control? FWIW i couldnt find any
>>> test info about ADSL routers on poor quality lines.
>>>
>>> would removing the home highway ISDN (which is on another pair in
>>> the same cable) improve things, and if so by how much?
>>>
>>> Comments please to the group.
>>
>> It's not the DSLAM which is probably causing to problems, it's the
>> spiders web of wiring in your house. If it is as bad as you say
>> contact your ISP to get BT to visit, at the very least they should
>> put in a NTE5 & a then you can go on to try a faceplate filter.
>
> yes - we may get BT out.
>
> i was interested to find out if better filters may have an effect,
> or the ISDN line.
>>
>> It would be a very interesting experiment for you to disconnect
>> _all_ extensions & then see what happens, but if as you say you
>> don't have a master/NTE5 this could be beyond your skill level...
>
> its not so much the skill level as the fact that it is 250 miles
> away.

Always a problem isn't it ;-)

How do you find out the downstream noise level?

My service seems to have deteriorated lately and I want to have some figures
to go to my provider (Force9) with, or do I have to ask them or get BT to
tell me?

Cheers,

Conor.

"Conor McKeown" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:1101414914.706902@sj-nntpcache-3...
> How do you find out the downstream noise level?

in this case - it is part of the management interface on the Netgear wgr614.

i think that the info from the DSLAM end is sent to the box as part of the
ADSL protocols, but i havent looked at that in any detail.
>
> My service seems to have deteriorated lately and I want to have some
figures
> to go to my provider (Force9) with, or do I have to ask them or get BT to
> tell me?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Conor.
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

Update - resolved - see comments.

"Kráftéé" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:417c2d98$0$43593$(E-Mail Removed)...
> stephen wrote:
> > "Kráftéé" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:417c031e$0$43611$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> stephen wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> background
> >>>
> >>> just set up a 512k line for my brother - until BT removed the ADSL
> >>> distance limits he was refused a connection.
> >>>
> >>> now the ADSL link is in and running, the downstream loss is shown
> >>> as 63 dB and 3 dB margin.
> >>>
> >>> We started with a Netgear ADSL wireless router (WGR614), but this
> >>> unit wasnt stable - it resets / reboots when more than 1 user is
> >>> connected every 10 to 20 minutes to retrain on ADSL - which drops
> >>> wireless connections, screws up the DHCP tables and so on.
> >>>
> >>> That has been swapped out for a 3com Officeconnect router which
> >>> seems better. Not had it long enough yet to be comfortable that it
> >>> provides a stable connection.
> >>>
> >>> there isnt a master socket - at 1 point the incoming BT cable is
> >>> in a wall mount box, with various cables connected to support a
> >>> home highway and the ADSL host line. i have a micro filter on each
> >>> extension socket for now.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So - the Q
> >>>
> >>> what can we do to improve the noise margin?
> >>>
> >>> Better filters? - if so recommendations?
> >>>
> >>> would a different router show better margins, or is that dictated
> >>> by the DSLAM and we dont have any control? FWIW i couldnt find any
> >>> test info about ADSL routers on poor quality lines.
> >>>
> >>> would removing the home highway ISDN (which is on another pair in
> >>> the same cable) improve things, and if so by how much?
> >>>
> >>> Comments please to the group.
> >>
> >> It's not the DSLAM which is probably causing to problems, it's the
> >> spiders web of wiring in your house. If it is as bad as you say
> >> contact your ISP to get BT to visit, at the very least they should
> >> put in a NTE5 & a then you can go on to try a faceplate filter.
> >
> > yes - we may get BT out.
> >
> > i was interested to find out if better filters may have an effect,
> > or the ISDN line.

update - got BT to check the line as it had got worse.

the BT engineer rewired the master socket with a filter, but still had an
issue.

then he traced the house wiring and found some problems there, which he
fixed - definitely doing more than his job!

we had gone back to the netgear due to some config issues, which showed
around 18 dB downstream noise margin, but we are still having intermittent
reboots, so i put the 3com back in place once i could get back there.

downstream link is now much better with 63 dB loss and 18.5 dB noise margin
according to the 3Com router.

still getting occasional link up / down events (maybe 4 hour intervals
according the log) - but there is a massive improvement in consistent
throughput and stability.
> >>
> >> It would be a very interesting experiment for you to disconnect
> >> _all_ extensions & then see what happens, but if as you say you
> >> don't have a master/NTE5 this could be beyond your skill level...
> >
> > its not so much the skill level as the fact that it is 250 miles
> > away.
>
> Always a problem isn't it ;-)
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:30:43 -0000, "Conor McKeown"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>How do you find out the downstream noise level?

your equipment may provide it - what is it ?

Your ISP can ask your modem / the DSLAM via a Woosh test, providing
its on.

Are you losing sync, getting a lot of errors or just seeing slow
speeds ?

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !