ADSL Disconnects since alarm installation

Hi all,

A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
weeks ago.

Previously the connection was solid but since the alarm went in it
constantly disconnects and often fails connecting with a 'server not
responding'.

The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet
nothing changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box
(and the fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem
to indicate this is not the issue).

The strange thing is that the problem is worse in the evening than in
the morning. In the morning it will occasionally stay connected for a
couple of hours, but at night a 2 minute connection is rare.

All the sockets, including Sky, have microfilters. BT insist that the
line is fine and refuse to send an engineer out even though my friend
offered to pay.

Given that I cannot physically get to the property, can anyone recommend
anything that could alleviate this problem ?

TIA

Jon

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:55:06 +0000, Resident Drunk
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet
>nothing changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box
>(and the fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem
>to indicate this is not the issue).

Where did they disconnect the alarm? If it was at the alarm equipment
end, leaving new cabling in situ, then it might be that the cabling is
faulty or runs close to a noise source. To test properly it needs to
be disconnected where it attaches to the BT line.
--
Ian

The From address is valid - for the moment

On 15 Nov 2006, Resident Drunk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
>problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
>weeks ago.

From the mention of evening disconnections, it might also be the case that
the line was switched from a fixed (say) 2000 kbps to DSL Max, ie the ISP
has done a regrade to the "up to 8000 kbps" type of connection. Lots of
people reported problems in the evenings compared with daytime (because
the noise margin drops below a certain level, and signal is not strong
enough for the modem/router to keep the connection working). Worth a
check. Also, worth knowing what modem or router is in use (in case
someone knows of particular problems with that unit). HTH.

FWIW, when a friend of mine had an alarm fitted, he lost ADSL for about a
day, then after ringing the firm, and checking with his ISP (Metronet) it
all came back to working again. No clue as to what might have been done,
by either Metronet or alarm firm, but he wasn't happy the day it was not
working (fortunately, could visit his parents' home and plug laptop in
on their PlusNet connection without any problems at all).

Ian B wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:55:06 +0000, Resident Drunk
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet
>> nothing changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box
>> (and the fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem
>> to indicate this is not the issue).
>
> Where did they disconnect the alarm? If it was at the alarm equipment
> end, leaving new cabling in situ, then it might be that the cabling is
> faulty or runs close to a noise source. To test properly it needs to
> be disconnected where it attaches to the BT line.

It was connected from the BT box.

a few other things that may be relevant -

The ADSL light on the modem is solid green at all times
3 different modems of 2 different brands have been tested
2 different computers have been tested

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:55:06 +0000, Resident Drunk wrote:

> The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet nothing
> changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box (and the
> fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem to
> indicate this is not the issue).

> The strange thing is that the problem is worse in the evening than in the
> morning. In the morning it will occasionally stay connected for a couple
> of hours, but at night a 2 minute connection is rare.

> All the sockets, including Sky, have microfilters. BT insist that the
> line is fine and refuse to send an engineer out even though my friend
> offered to pay.

> Given that I cannot physically get to the property, can anyone recommend
> anything that could alleviate this problem ?

Have they tried connecting at the Master socket with the faceplate removed,
i.e. direct to the incoming BT socket? That should help to show whether or
not it is an internal issue.

As it gets worse at night it could be electrical noise from something only
switched on in the evening?

Does your friend have a router? I had problems with disconnects which were
finally traced back to a faulty Router 'plugtop' power supply.

What about the Alarm power supply? (or anything else that plugs into the
mains that also connects to the telephone system, e.g. DECT phones)

HTH

--
Regards
Barry

Resident Drunk wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
> problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
> weeks ago.
>
There were compatibility problems with RedCare, which is typically provided on
alarm lines; it causes an alarm condition when the line becomes disconnected.

RedCare *IS* compatible with ADSL now, but I wonder if it is possible that some
far-earlier-installed kit has got reused.

(I'm not totally familiar with RedCare, all I know is that when an engineer
disconeccts a line that has RedCare on it, he usually only know about it when
the police turn up, because control seem to neglect to mention the fact to
anyone...)

Jim Howes wrote:
> Resident Drunk wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
>> problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
>> weeks ago.
>>
> There were compatibility problems with RedCare, which is typically provided on
> alarm lines; it causes an alarm condition when the line becomes disconnected.
>
> RedCare *IS* compatible with ADSL now, but I wonder if it is possible that some
> far-earlier-installed kit has got reused.
>
> (I'm not totally familiar with RedCare, all I know is that when an engineer
> disconeccts a line that has RedCare on it, he usually only know about it when
> the police turn up, because control seem to neglect to mention the fact to
> anyone...)

All I can tell you is that this was an expensive alarm (so hopefully new
equipment).

Is there any way I could check for RedCare ?

Resident Drunk wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
> problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
> weeks ago.
>
> Previously the connection was solid but since the alarm went in it
> constantly disconnects and often fails connecting with a 'server not
> responding'.
>
> The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet
> nothing changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box
> (and the fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem
> to indicate this is not the issue).
>
> The strange thing is that the problem is worse in the evening than in
> the morning. In the morning it will occasionally stay connected for a
> couple of hours, but at night a 2 minute connection is rare.
>
> All the sockets, including Sky, have microfilters. BT insist that the
> line is fine and refuse to send an engineer out even though my friend
> offered to pay.
>
> Given that I cannot physically get to the property, can anyone recommend
> anything that could alleviate this problem ?
>
> TIA
>
> Jon


I cannot see the connection but many alarms have automatic diallers
which can ring out at any time (OT: often at premium rates).

They perform a system check.

As stated, there is no apparent reason why a dialler should interfere
with ADSL - especially after the alarm has been disconnected.

But, as another poster has raised the compatibility question, there may
be cumulative effects.

best of luck

flop

On 15 Nov 2006, Resident Drunk <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is there any way I could check for RedCare ?

Not easily, as you're the other side of the country...

A RedCare alarm will be connected direct into the line socket, so that
a user cannot accidentally remove it. Some 'autodial' type alarms may
be plugged into the line (and have incoming calls barred, and possibly
even use number withheld, and may make regular "call home" contact, so
the calls might be billed (if the alarm firm is cheeky, they would use
an 0870/0871/0845/09x number for the calls so they can get some income
share from those calls in addition to everything else screwed out of a
customer, though some might use an 080x {free} number, which would not
show up on most bills, as a result). So check the status of this line
wrt any charges appearing on the bills, numbers called, barring, etc.

Of course, one should not mess with any RedCare phone line - the whole
point of this system is that if someone tampers with the line, disrupt
of the (inaudible) alarm tones from property to exchange/control rooms
will be detected and trigger the alarm firm to do whatever action they
usually do - (1) ring customer site and/or (2) call out Police. Loss
of the tones is one trigger, the alarm itself is the other... It's
so that cutting the phone wire will _itself_ trigger an alarm so
a burglar cannot simply stop an alarm system from calling out. (Of
course in that case, (1) above will fail, so alarm service goes to
step (2) immediately...)

Clearly, if one does see wires from an alarm into the phone line, those
must not be disconnected, else it acts like a cutting of the external
drop wire (/underground wiring) and will initiate an alarm state.

AFAIK, RedCare is charged by BT on a quarterly basis but many of the
alarm companies charge the year's fees in advance (so they sit on the
cash to get interest on it, without the user seeing the benefit)...
I don't remember the exact cost, but undoubtedly some alarm
firms will also add a mark up to the BT charges.

"Flop" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:455b4f4f$0$8710$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Resident Drunk wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A friend of mine who lives at the other side of the country has had
>> problems with their BT BB connection since an alarm was fitted several
>> weeks ago.
>>
>> Previously the connection was solid but since the alarm went in it
>> constantly disconnects and often fails connecting with a 'server not
>> responding'.
>>
>> The alarm company were called back in, disconnected the alarm yet nothing
>> changed. They insist that the alarm has a filter inside the box (and the
>> fact that there are still problems when disconnected would seem to
>> indicate this is not the issue).
>>
>> The strange thing is that the problem is worse in the evening than in the
>> morning. In the morning it will occasionally stay connected for a couple
>> of hours, but at night a 2 minute connection is rare.
>>
>> All the sockets, including Sky, have microfilters. BT insist that the
>> line is fine and refuse to send an engineer out even though my friend
>> offered to pay.
>>
>> Given that I cannot physically get to the property, can anyone recommend
>> anything that could alleviate this problem ?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Jon
>
>
> I cannot see the connection but many alarms have automatic diallers which
> can ring out at any time (OT: often at premium rates).
>
> They perform a system check.
>
> As stated, there is no apparent reason why a dialler should interfere with
> ADSL - especially after the alarm has been disconnected.
>
> But, as another poster has raised the compatibility question, there may be
> cumulative effects.
>
> best of luck
>
> flop
>

I have had this issue a number of times with security systems.
As the O/P has not mentioned Red Care let us assume that it is a digital
communicator or speech dialler running across a PSTN with ADSL applied.

A lot of security system comms dialler issues relate to polarity.
The average alarm install uses 6 core alsrm cable for the connection to
dialler, communicator etc.

In every one that I have have been called out to I have ditched
microfilters, fitted filtered faceplate on NTE/5 and run twisted 3 pair to
the security panel.

Regards

Alastair