ADSL connection won't stay up

I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
page.

I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
(which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.

Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
exchange, something else?

Thanks
Andrew

Andrew Taylor wrote:
> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
> page.
>
> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>
> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
> exchange, something else?

Routers can and do sometimes lose passwords & other settings so you can
never be absolutely sure that settings haven't changed. They also sometimes
die in unexpected ways, i.e., you don't lose all access but odd things start
going wrong. It's sometimes worth trying another router before dismissing
the customer support folk as talking b*llocks. ;-)

Isn't 192.168.1.1 usually the local IP address of your router?

Tim

On 5 Mar, 10:22, "Tim Downie" <timdownie2...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> Andrew Taylor wrote:
> > I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
> > so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
> > the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
> > off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
> > occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
> > page.
>
> > I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
> > support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
> > (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
> > like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
> > of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
> > router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>
> > Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
> > router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
> > exchange, something else?
>
> Routers can and do sometimes lose passwords & other settings so you can
> never be absolutely sure that settings haven't changed. *They also sometimes
> die in unexpected ways, i.e., you don't lose all access but odd things start
> going wrong. *It's sometimes worth trying another router before dismissing
> the customer support folk as talking b*llocks. ;-)
>
> Isn't 192.168.1.1 usually the local IP address of your router?
>
> Tim

Thanks Tim. The router settings, including ID and password, were all
intact.

I garbled what I meant to say about the IP addresses: 192.168.1.1 is
indeed what they told me the _router's_ internal address should be,
not the computer's. I reset it to this (it was previously auto-
assigned
with a value of 192.168.0.1) but that made no difference.

Trying another router seems like a good idea. I'm now regretting
throwing away the old ADSL modem I had when this account
first started off with Freeserve

A

"Tim Downie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Andrew Taylor wrote:
>> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
>> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
>> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
>> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
>> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
>> page.
>>
>> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
>> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
>> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
>> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
>> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
>> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>>
>> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
>> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
>> exchange, something else?
>
> Routers can and do sometimes lose passwords & other settings so you can
> never be absolutely sure that settings haven't changed. They also
> sometimes die in unexpected ways, i.e., you don't lose all access but odd
> things start going wrong. It's sometimes worth trying another router
> before dismissing the customer support folk as talking b*llocks. ;-)
>
> Isn't 192.168.1.1 usually the local IP address of your router?

Borrow another router. Reset it to the factory defaults.

Make sure you have the correct settings for:

VPI ; usually 0
VCI ; usually 38
Encapsulation: usually PPPoA VC-Mux
Username
Password

Look at the router status: does it show ADSL sync?

If so, report here the:

Modulation ; often G.DMT
SNR margin }
Line Attenuation } for both upstream and downstream
Data Rate }

If it doesn't connect look at the router logs to see what the router reports
as wrong. Remember, this is why you have a router, rather than a USB modem
which tells you nothing useful.

Some routers are much better than others in reporting this information, and
showing it in a friendly form. One of these:
http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=584405 is cheap enough and
while it doesn't have a very friendly display it will show you what is going
on.

--
Graham J

On 5 Mar, 11:40, "Graham J" <gra...@nospam.zen.co.uk> wrote:
> "Tim Downie" <timdownie2...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
>
> > Andrew Taylor wrote:
> >> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
> >> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
> >> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
> >> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
> >> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
> >> page.
>
> >> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
> >> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
> >> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
> >> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
> >> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
> >> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>
> >> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
> >> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
> >> exchange, something else?
>
> > Routers can and do sometimes lose passwords & other settings so you can
> > never be absolutely sure that settings haven't changed. *They also
> > sometimes die in unexpected ways, i.e., you don't lose all access but odd
> > things start going wrong. *It's sometimes worth trying another router
> > before dismissing the customer support folk as talking b*llocks. ;-)
>
> > Isn't 192.168.1.1 usually the local IP address of your router?
>
> Borrow another router. *Reset it to the factory defaults.
>
> Make sure you have the correct settings for:
>
> VPI * *; usually 0
> VCI * *; usually 38
> Encapsulation: usually PPPoA VC-Mux
> Username
> Password
>
> Look at the router status: does it show ADSL sync?
>
> If so, report here the:
>
> Modulation * *; often G.DMT
> SNR margin * * * * *}
> Line Attenuation * *} for both upstream and downstream
> Data Rate * * * * * * }
>
> If it doesn't connect look at the router logs to see what the router reports
> as wrong. *Remember, this is why you have a router, rather than a USB modem
> which tells you nothing useful.
>
> Some routers are much better than others in reporting this information, and
> showing it in a friendly form. *One of these:http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?W...uctId=584405is cheap enough and
> while it doesn't have a very friendly display it will show you what is going
> on.
>

Thanks Graham, I'll give that a go when I get a chance.

Andrew Taylor <(E-Mail Removed)> considered Thu, 5 Mar 2009
02:59:28 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:

>On 5 Mar, 10:22, "Tim Downie" <timdownie2...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> Andrew Taylor wrote:
>> > I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
>> > so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
>> > the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
>> > off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
>> > occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
>> > page.
>>
>> > I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
>> > support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
>> > (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
>> > like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
>> > of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
>> > router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>>
>> > Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
>> > router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
>> > exchange, something else?
>>
>> Routers can and do sometimes lose passwords & other settings so you can
>> never be absolutely sure that settings haven't changed. *They also sometimes
>> die in unexpected ways, i.e., you don't lose all access but odd things start
>> going wrong. *It's sometimes worth trying another router before dismissing
>> the customer support folk as talking b*llocks. ;-)
>>
>> Isn't 192.168.1.1 usually the local IP address of your router?
>>
>> Tim
>
>Thanks Tim. The router settings, including ID and password, were all
>intact.
>
>I garbled what I meant to say about the IP addresses: 192.168.1.1 is
>indeed what they told me the _router's_ internal address should be,
>not the computer's. I reset it to this (it was previously auto-
>assigned
>with a value of 192.168.0.1) but that made no difference.
>
>Trying another router seems like a good idea. I'm now regretting
>throwing away the old ADSL modem I had when this account
>first started off with Freeserve
>
It shouldn't make the slightest difference which RFC1918 subnet you
choose (I have occasionally used network 10, although 16777214 local
addresses could be regarded as excessive), although the router
software may be deliberately limited to only allow use of a /24 subnet
(to protect the market for expensive business routers), and if so,
this would norally be one of the 192.168.n.0 networks.
As long as everything on the lan is using the same value of n, it
doesn't make any difference what n is, within the range 0-255.
It also shouldn't matter what address within that range you put the
router on, as long as it is correctly set as the default gateway on
all machines on the lan.

So you could if you wished use the 192.168.117.0/24 subnet, with the
router on 192.168.117.188 - It'll still work fine.

Almost nothing you do on the LAN side of the router should affect it's
ability to log into your ISP and stay that way.

Phil W Lee wrote:

> So you could if you wished use the 192.168.117.0/24 subnet, with the
> router on 192.168.117.188 - It'll still work fine.
>
> Almost nothing you do on the LAN side of the router should affect it's
> ability to log into your ISP and stay that way.
Agreed.

"Andrew Taylor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5d306f9d-2a56-4b7a-9dce-(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
> page.
>
> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>
> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
> exchange, something else?
>
> Thanks
> Andrew

This is a sync problem, not a PPP session issue surely?
Did this Orange idiot suggest you connect your router
direct to the line by removing the faceplate on the master socket?
(assuming it is an NTE5)
This will disconnect any extension devices and their wiring.
Can you try that?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gop4hq$5er$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> "Andrew Taylor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:5d306f9d-2a56-4b7a-9dce-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
>> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
>> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
>> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
>> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
>> page.
>>
>> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
>> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
>> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
>> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
>> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
>> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>>
>> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
>> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
>> exchange, something else?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Andrew
>
> This is a sync problem, not a PPP session issue surely?
> Did this Orange idiot suggest you connect your router
> direct to the line by removing the faceplate on the master socket?
> (assuming it is an NTE5)
> This will disconnect any extension devices and their wiring.
> Can you try that?
>
> --
> Graham.
>
> %Profound_observation%
>
You could also post the connection log from the router onto this group
so we could look at it and give a better opinion of what is happening.

On 5 Mar, 19:11, "Harry" <ha...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Graham." <m...@privicy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gop4hq$5er$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
>
> > "Andrew Taylor" <andrew.tay...@cantab.net> wrote in message
> >news:5d306f9d-2a56-4b7a-9dce-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> I've been unable to connect to Orange broadband for the past day or
> >> so. My router (Netgear) appears to go through the usual sequence, and
> >> the "Internet" light goes green, but after about 15 seconds it goes
> >> off again, and the sequence repeats indefinitely. On a couple of
> >> occasions it has stayed up slightly longer, letting me get to a web
> >> page.
>
> >> I've just spent a frustrating 20 minutes on the phone to Orange tech
> >> support, where they ended up putting the blame on the router settings
> >> (which have not changed for several years): specifically they didn't
> >> like the fact the IP address of the computer was 192.168.0.4 instead
> >> of 192.168.1.1. I can't see how this can possibly be relevant. The
> >> router wasn't supplied by Orange so maybe this is an easy get-out.
>
> >> Can anyone suggest what is likely to be the cause of this, e.g. faulty
> >> router (it's a few years old, and I suppose they can fail), problem at
> >> exchange, something else?
>
> >> Thanks
> >> Andrew
>
> > This is a sync problem, not a PPP session issue surely?
> > Did this Orange idiot suggest you connect your router
> > direct to the line by removing the faceplate on the master socket?
> > (assuming it is an NTE5)
> > This will disconnect any extension devices and their wiring.
> > Can you try that?
>
> > --
> > Graham.
>
> > %Profound_observation%
>
> You could also post the connection log from the router onto this group
> so we could look at it and give a better opinion of what is happening.



Thanks for all the replies, especially those confirming my belief
that the internal IPs have nothing to do with the case.
I've tried restoring factory settings and re-configuring the router,
to
no avail. Unfortunately it doesn't provide much in the way of
connection logs so I can't tell if it's failing to log in, or
logging in correctly and then dropping.

A major problem is that I can't spare the time to sit at
home hanging on the phone to tech support. Maybe
I should try calling customer support and threatening
take my business elsewhere...