ADSL & external bell wiring. Ping kraftee.

I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some time. On
checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found that the external bell
was wired into the system behind the wall mounted part of the socket i.e.
before the test socket. Is this correct and how should it be wired? Maybe
kraftee can answer. TIA

Peter Crosland

(E-Mail Removed)

Peter Crosland wrote:
> I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some time. On
> checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found that the external bell
> was wired into the system behind the wall mounted part of the socket i.e.
> before the test socket. Is this correct and how should it be wired? Maybe
> kraftee can answer. TIA
>
> Peter Crosland
>
> (E-Mail Removed)
>
>

Thats wrong. I assume you mean across the A and B screw terminals.
Firstly nothing should be connected across the line - thats BT property.
Secondly, the bell will be short circuiting the line and dropping the
ADSL signal level. Also one leg of the ADSL signal will be extended
outside causing unbalance.
Any telephone equipment should be connected via the 'phone' side of a
filter.
In your case that sounds difficult as the wire to the outside won't have
a BT plug on it to plug into a filter.
Ideally you should install a filtered faceplate with the bell connected
to terminals 3 & 5 at the rear of the faceplate.
Alternatively get an old BT phone cord and connect the bell between the
white and green wires and plug it into the filter. It must be a decent
quality filter with a 'ring capacitor' inside. A £10 ish one.
You may have to experiment slightly as, if the incoming pair is the
wrong way round, the bell may have to be on the wrong leg.
I know you shouldn't be touching it but the -ve 48v leg should be
connected to the B screw terminal (Battery on B)

Mike

(Hope this is right Kraftee!!)

Mike J wrote:
> Peter Crosland wrote:
>> I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some
>> time. On checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found that
>> the external bell was wired into the system behind the wall mounted
>> part of the socket i.e. before the test socket. Is this correct and
>> how should it be wired? Maybe kraftee can answer. TIA
>>
>> Peter Crosland
>>
>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>
>>
>
> Thats wrong. I assume you mean across the A and B screw terminals.
> Firstly nothing should be connected across the line - thats BT
> property. Secondly, the bell will be short circuiting the line and
> dropping the ADSL signal level. Also one leg of the ADSL signal will
> be extended outside causing unbalance.
> Any telephone equipment should be connected via the 'phone' side of a
> filter.
> In your case that sounds difficult as the wire to the outside won't
> have a BT plug on it to plug into a filter.
> Ideally you should install a filtered faceplate with the bell
> connected to terminals 3 & 5 at the rear of the faceplate.
> Alternatively get an old BT phone cord and connect the bell between
> the white and green wires and plug it into the filter. It must be a
> decent quality filter with a 'ring capacitor' inside. A £10 ish one.
> You may have to experiment slightly as, if the incoming pair is the
> wrong way round, the bell may have to be on the wrong leg.
> I know you shouldn't be touching it but the -ve 48v leg should be
> connected to the B screw terminal (Battery on B)
>
> Mike
>
> (Hope this is right Kraftee!!)

Thanks for that Mike. Just as I suspected, and as wired by BT! The external
bell was fitted by them some years ago. I think I will suggest that they
come and fix it so that the line works properly with ADSL. It will probably
mean an argument, or series of them, about who should pay. However, this was
how the BT engineer did the job so it seems very clear they should fix it
FOC. Before anyone quibbles it was pre Openreach as well!

Peter Crosland

(E-Mail Removed)

Peter Crosland wrote:
> Mike J wrote:
>> Peter Crosland wrote:
>>> I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some
>>> time. On checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found that
>>> the external bell was wired into the system behind the wall
>>> mounted part of the socket i.e. before the test socket. Is this
>>> correct and how should it be wired? Maybe kraftee can answer. TIA
>>>
>>> Peter Crosland
>>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thats wrong. I assume you mean across the A and B screw terminals.
>> Firstly nothing should be connected across the line - thats BT
>> property. Secondly, the bell will be short circuiting the line and
>> dropping the ADSL signal level. Also one leg of the ADSL signal
>> will be extended outside causing unbalance.
>> Any telephone equipment should be connected via the 'phone' side
>> of a filter.
>> In your case that sounds difficult as the wire to the outside won't
>> have a BT plug on it to plug into a filter.
>> Ideally you should install a filtered faceplate with the bell
>> connected to terminals 3 & 5 at the rear of the faceplate.
>> Alternatively get an old BT phone cord and connect the bell between
>> the white and green wires and plug it into the filter. It must be a
>> decent quality filter with a 'ring capacitor' inside. A £10 ish
>> one. You may have to experiment slightly as, if the incoming pair
>> is the wrong way round, the bell may have to be on the wrong leg.
>> I know you shouldn't be touching it but the -ve 48v leg should be
>> connected to the B screw terminal (Battery on B)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> (Hope this is right Kraftee!!)

Yep you there alright, except it wouldn't just unbalance the circuit
it would present a virtual short at the frequencies DSL use.
>
> Thanks for that Mike. Just as I suspected, and as wired by BT! The
> external bell was fitted by them some years ago. I think I will
> suggest that they come and fix it so that the line works properly
> with ADSL. It will probably mean an argument, or series of them,
> about who should pay. However, this was how the BT engineer did the
> job so it seems very clear they should fix it FOC. Before anyone
> quibbles it was pre Openreach as well!
> Peter Crosland
>
> (E-Mail Removed)

& I didn't even have to touch my keyboard..

One problem with your logic (& it's a biggy) even if it was done by a
BT engineer x years ago, it will now be an Openreach engineer who
visits. Now I know it appears to be the same shit different shovel
but it is a big difference & you will not get it done free of charge
(arguments & complaints to higher levels will most probably get them
squashed but they would be raised, the field engineer has no say in
the matter, if they don't there is an office which checks all clears &
will raise one against your job & the engineer will get disciplined at
one level or another). If you take your time & think it thru (buying
a faceplate filter would make it a lot easier) you aught to be able to
figure out a plan yourself. At the very worse you may have to abandon
the external bell. If you go that route try to do so at the switch,
which should have been fitted.

Hope this does make some sort of sense.

"kráftéé" wrote:

> Hope this does make some sort of sense.

Perfect sense.

Just destroy the evidence.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:
> "kráftéé" wrote:
>
>> Hope this does make some sort of sense.
>
> Perfect sense.
>
> Just destroy the evidence.
>
> Graham

You'd be suprised just how many don't & as for electricians thinking
(running extensions as a loop circuit , not a spur) I just give up
(not using choc block type connectors would help as well :-( )

kráftéé wrote:
> Peter Crosland wrote:
>> Mike J wrote:
>>> Peter Crosland wrote:
>>>> I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some
>>>> time. On checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found that
>>>> the external bell was wired into the system behind the wall
>>>> mounted part of the socket i.e. before the test socket. Is this
>>>> correct and how should it be wired? Maybe kraftee can answer. TIA
>>>>
>>>> Peter Crosland
>>>>
>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thats wrong. I assume you mean across the A and B screw terminals.
>>> Firstly nothing should be connected across the line - thats BT
>>> property. Secondly, the bell will be short circuiting the line and
>>> dropping the ADSL signal level. Also one leg of the ADSL signal
>>> will be extended outside causing unbalance.
>>> Any telephone equipment should be connected via the 'phone' side
>>> of a filter.
>>> In your case that sounds difficult as the wire to the outside won't
>>> have a BT plug on it to plug into a filter.
>>> Ideally you should install a filtered faceplate with the bell
>>> connected to terminals 3 & 5 at the rear of the faceplate.
>>> Alternatively get an old BT phone cord and connect the bell between
>>> the white and green wires and plug it into the filter. It must be a
>>> decent quality filter with a 'ring capacitor' inside. A £10 ish
>>> one. You may have to experiment slightly as, if the incoming pair
>>> is the wrong way round, the bell may have to be on the wrong leg.
>>> I know you shouldn't be touching it but the -ve 48v leg should be
>>> connected to the B screw terminal (Battery on B)
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> (Hope this is right Kraftee!!)
>
> Yep you there alright, except it wouldn't just unbalance the circuit
> it would present a virtual short at the frequencies DSL use.
>>
>> Thanks for that Mike. Just as I suspected, and as wired by BT! The
>> external bell was fitted by them some years ago. I think I will
>> suggest that they come and fix it so that the line works properly
>> with ADSL. It will probably mean an argument, or series of them,
>> about who should pay. However, this was how the BT engineer did the
>> job so it seems very clear they should fix it FOC. Before anyone
>> quibbles it was pre Openreach as well!
>> Peter Crosland
>>
>> (E-Mail Removed)
>
> & I didn't even have to touch my keyboard..
>
> One problem with your logic (& it's a biggy) even if it was done by a
> BT engineer x years ago, it will now be an Openreach engineer who
> visits. Now I know it appears to be the same shit different shovel
> but it is a big difference & you will not get it done free of charge
> (arguments & complaints to higher levels will most probably get them
> squashed but they would be raised, the field engineer has no say in
> the matter, if they don't there is an office which checks all clears &
> will raise one against your job & the engineer will get disciplined at
> one level or another). If you take your time & think it thru (buying
> a faceplate filter would make it a lot easier) you aught to be able to
> figure out a plan yourself. At the very worse you may have to abandon
> the external bell. If you go that route try to do so at the switch,
> which should have been fitted.
>
> Hope this does make some sort of sense.

I much appreciate your comments. I have anticipated this and my friend is
briefed accordingly. There is no chance of the outdoor bell being abandoned.
Furthermore he is a retired barrister and I am sure well able to fight his
corner with Openreach!

Peter Crosland

(E-Mail Removed)

Peter Crosland wrote:
> kráftéé wrote:
>> Peter Crosland wrote:
>>> Mike J wrote:
>>>> Peter Crosland wrote:
>>>>> I have been to a friend who has suffered low line speed for some
>>>>> time. On checking the BT installed NTE5 master socket I found
>>>>> that the external bell was wired into the system behind the wall
>>>>> mounted part of the socket i.e. before the test socket. Is this
>>>>> correct and how should it be wired? Maybe kraftee can answer.
>>>>> TIA Peter Crosland
>>>>>
>>>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thats wrong. I assume you mean across the A and B screw
>>>> terminals. Firstly nothing should be connected across the line -
>>>> thats BT property. Secondly, the bell will be short circuiting
>>>> the line and dropping the ADSL signal level. Also one leg of the
>>>> ADSL signal will be extended outside causing unbalance.
>>>> Any telephone equipment should be connected via the 'phone' side
>>>> of a filter.
>>>> In your case that sounds difficult as the wire to the outside
>>>> won't have a BT plug on it to plug into a filter.
>>>> Ideally you should install a filtered faceplate with the bell
>>>> connected to terminals 3 & 5 at the rear of the faceplate.
>>>> Alternatively get an old BT phone cord and connect the bell
>>>> between the white and green wires and plug it into the filter.
>>>> It must be a decent quality filter with a 'ring capacitor'
>>>> inside. A £10 ish one. You may have to experiment slightly as,
>>>> if the incoming pair is the wrong way round, the bell may have
>>>> to be on the wrong leg. I know you shouldn't be touching it but
>>>> the -ve 48v leg should be connected to the B screw terminal
>>>> (Battery on B) Mike
>>>>
>>>> (Hope this is right Kraftee!!)
>>
>> Yep you there alright, except it wouldn't just unbalance the
>> circuit it would present a virtual short at the frequencies DSL
>> use.
>>>
>>> Thanks for that Mike. Just as I suspected, and as wired by BT! The
>>> external bell was fitted by them some years ago. I think I will
>>> suggest that they come and fix it so that the line works properly
>>> with ADSL. It will probably mean an argument, or series of them,
>>> about who should pay. However, this was how the BT engineer did
>>> the job so it seems very clear they should fix it FOC. Before
>>> anyone quibbles it was pre Openreach as well!
>>> Peter Crosland
>>>
>>> (E-Mail Removed)
>>
>> & I didn't even have to touch my keyboard..
>>
>> One problem with your logic (& it's a biggy) even if it was done
>> by a BT engineer x years ago, it will now be an Openreach engineer
>> who visits. Now I know it appears to be the same shit different
>> shovel but it is a big difference & you will not get it done free
>> of charge (arguments & complaints to higher levels will most
>> probably get them squashed but they would be raised, the field
>> engineer has no say in the matter, if they don't there is an
>> office which checks all clears & will raise one against your job &
>> the engineer will get disciplined at one level or another). If
>> you take your time & think it thru (buying a faceplate filter
>> would make it a lot easier) you aught to be able to figure out a
>> plan yourself. At the very worse you may have to abandon the
>> external bell. If you go that route try to do so at the switch,
>> which should have been fitted. Hope this does make some sort of
>> sense.
>
> I much appreciate your comments. I have anticipated this and my
> friend is briefed accordingly. There is no chance of the outdoor
> bell being abandoned. Furthermore he is a retired barrister and I
> am sure well able to fight his corner with Openreach!
>
> Peter Crosland
>
> (E-Mail Removed)

Good luck PeterI'm about to join battle as well but with a different
issue, problem is, as I may have said before I have to be seen to go
thru the motions before taking that final step

kráftéé wrote:

>
>
> You'd be suprised just how many don't & as for electricians thinking
> (running extensions as a loop circuit , not a spur) I just give up
> (not using choc block type connectors would help as well :-( )
>
>

Now would I 'chat up' an OR guy and get a handful of crimps?

Surely not!

Mike

"kráftéé" wrote:

> Eeyore wrote:
> > "kráftéé" wrote:
> >
> >> Hope this does make some sort of sense.
> >
> > Perfect sense.
> >
> > Just destroy the evidence.
>
> You'd be suprised just how many don't & as for electricians thinking
> (running extensions as a loop circuit , not a spur) I just give up
> (not using choc block type connectors would help as well :-( )

Oh my !

They really do such things ? Oh dear.

Graham