Adding a Windows 2000 Laptop to an existing ME network

I have two computers connected with an 8 port hub running
Windows ME. The Work Group is Oemworkgroup. I added a
Laptop to the network running windows 2000. THe Laptop can
see one of the original two ME computers. THe connection
is slow to initiate, however. Neither of the existing ME
Computers can see the Laptop. Is Win 2K network compatible
with ME?

Jerry

In article <%1z3b.10591$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Salt_Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>"Jerry Black" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:00d301c36d86$33c687c0$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I have two computers connected with an 8 port hub running
>> Windows ME. The Work Group is Oemworkgroup. I added a
>> Laptop to the network running windows 2000. THe Laptop can
>> see one of the original two ME computers. THe connection
>> is slow to initiate, however. Neither of the existing ME
>> Computers can see the Laptop. Is Win 2K network compatible
>> with ME?
>>
>> Jerry

You've given a lot of good information, Salt_Peter, and I have some
comments that I'd like to make.

>Network connectivity is not dependent on the operating system, but rather on
>the protocols, the network media and the method of name resolution. In this
>case, it would have helped to know what protocols the 2 WinME clients are
>connecting with. The same protocol must be installed on all 3 systems in
>order to provide network connectivity throughout. Also, the W2K operating
>system is using user-level security, and since W2K doesn't support anonymous
>logons by default, a user connecting to a W2K client needs to exist on the
>W2K target and have both the right to connect and permission to access the
>resource.

Well said! I agree completely.

>Since W2K requires tcp/ip, i'ld suggest using it for the network. Since
>tcp/ip needs specific settings to place all 3 clients in the same subnet
>when no router is present, i'ld suggest the following static tcp/ip
>settings:
>client 1 WinME 192.168.0.1 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup
>client 2 WinME 192.168.0.2 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup
>client 3 W2K 192.168.0.3 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup

W2K doesn't require TCP/IP -- it can use TCP/IP, NetBEUI, or IPX/SPX
for networking with other versions of Windows. However TCP/IP is the
best choice.

>Needless to say, the NICs need to be verified for network activity and
>resulting speed (100 Mb/s, 10 Mb/s?). Consult Nic documentation for
>indications.
>
>Then there is name resolution. WinME is netbios based while W2K relies on
>dns name resolution. I'm not going to start describing the steps both OSs go
>through to provide name resolution, but suffice it to say that WinME does
>netbios broadcasting whenever a Wins server isn't present on the network (an
>environment that W2K does not behave well in). The fix is to specify the
>W2K's ip address/ name in WinME's lmhost file, and conversely, specify the 2
>WinME's ip address/name combinations in W2K's host file.

According to this Microsoft Knowledge Base article, W2K only uses DNS
if both broadcast and WINS fail to resolve a name:

Default Node Type for Microsoft Clients
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;160177

In my experience, W2K behaves perfectly well in a workgroup, sharing
files and printers with all versions of Windows using NetBIOS
broadcasts.

I've never found it necessary to create HOSTS or LMHOSTS files on any
single-subnet workgroup network, regardless of the versions of Windows
being used.

>WinME consults the lmhost file before broadcasting for netbios names and W2K
>consults it's host file before attempting to locate a dns server.
>
>Last but not least, create a user on W2K and log on as that user from WinME.
>Whenever you see an IPC$ prompt when connecting from WinME, it's a remote
>procedure call prompting you for a valid username/password combination for a
>user existing at the W2K client. Of course, you could enable the Guest
>account on W2K to provide anonymous logons for incoming connections, but
>that might not be a security risk you'll be willing to take.

Well said, again.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <%1z3b.10591$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Salt_Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >"Jerry Black" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >news:00d301c36d86$33c687c0$(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> I have two computers connected with an 8 port hub running
> >> Windows ME. The Work Group is Oemworkgroup. I added a
> >> Laptop to the network running windows 2000. THe Laptop can
> >> see one of the original two ME computers. THe connection
> >> is slow to initiate, however. Neither of the existing ME
> >> Computers can see the Laptop. Is Win 2K network compatible
> >> with ME?
> >>
> >> Jerry
>
> You've given a lot of good information, Salt_Peter, and I have some
> comments that I'd like to make.
>
> >Network connectivity is not dependent on the operating system, but rather
on
> >the protocols, the network media and the method of name resolution. In
this
> >case, it would have helped to know what protocols the 2 WinME clients are
> >connecting with. The same protocol must be installed on all 3 systems in
> >order to provide network connectivity throughout. Also, the W2K operating
> >system is using user-level security, and since W2K doesn't support
anonymous
> >logons by default, a user connecting to a W2K client needs to exist on
the
> >W2K target and have both the right to connect and permission to access
the
> >resource.
>
> Well said! I agree completely.
>
> >Since W2K requires tcp/ip, i'ld suggest using it for the network. Since
> >tcp/ip needs specific settings to place all 3 clients in the same subnet
> >when no router is present, i'ld suggest the following static tcp/ip
> >settings:
> >client 1 WinME 192.168.0.1 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup
> >client 2 WinME 192.168.0.2 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup
> >client 3 W2K 192.168.0.3 subnet 255.255.255.0 Workgroup:Oemworkgroup
>
> W2K doesn't require TCP/IP -- it can use TCP/IP, NetBEUI, or IPX/SPX
> for networking with other versions of Windows. However TCP/IP is the
> best choice.

Good point, fair comment. But. W2K supports network hierarchy designs based
on fully qualified domain names. Win9x and WinNT can only participate in
flat/2-dimensional domains. These are purely netbios based. Sure, you can
use a broadcasting based protocol for W2K but you'ld be hard pressed to
obtain anything but poor performance.

>
> >Needless to say, the NICs need to be verified for network activity and
> >resulting speed (100 Mb/s, 10 Mb/s?). Consult Nic documentation for
> >indications.
> >
> >Then there is name resolution. WinME is netbios based while W2K relies on
> >dns name resolution. I'm not going to start describing the steps both OSs
go
> >through to provide name resolution, but suffice it to say that WinME does
> >netbios broadcasting whenever a Wins server isn't present on the network
(an
> >environment that W2K does not behave well in). The fix is to specify the
> >W2K's ip address/ name in WinME's lmhost file, and conversely, specify
the 2
> >WinME's ip address/name combinations in W2K's host file.
>
> According to this Microsoft Knowledge Base article, W2K only uses DNS
> if both broadcast and WINS fail to resolve a name:
>
> Default Node Type for Microsoft Clients
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;160177
>

Not true, W2K uses DNS by default. The above document pertains only to node
type as far as netbios broadcasting alone is concerned. A W2K hosts will
attempt to consult in sequence:
(the last 3 depend on node type and dhcp settings)

a) host file
b) DNS server
c) broadcast (if b-node)
d) Wins server
e) lmhost file

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...rk/prcc_tcp_jq
lt.asp

> In my experience, W2K behaves perfectly well in a workgroup, sharing
> files and printers with all versions of Windows using NetBIOS
> broadcasts.
>
> I've never found it necessary to create HOSTS or LMHOSTS files on any
> single-subnet workgroup network, regardless of the versions of Windows
> being used.

I never suggested it wouldn't work, specially in an environment where an NT4
server is master browser. But in an environment where performance is an
issue and network activity requires efficiency, W2K gains immensely from the
presence of a dns server or a host file. In other areas, like setting up
trust relationships, dns is a requirement.

>
> >WinME consults the lmhost file before broadcasting for netbios names and
W2K
> >consults it's host file before attempting to locate a dns server.
> >
> >Last but not least, create a user on W2K and log on as that user from
WinME.
> >Whenever you see an IPC$ prompt when connecting from WinME, it's a remote
> >procedure call prompting you for a valid username/password combination
for a
> >user existing at the W2K client. Of course, you could enable the Guest
> >account on W2K to provide anonymous logons for incoming connections, but
> >that might not be a security risk you'll be willing to take.
>
> Well said, again.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
> http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm

In article <vLU5b.11395$(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Salt_Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> [snip]
>> According to this Microsoft Knowledge Base article, W2K only uses DNS
>> if both broadcast and WINS fail to resolve a name:
>>
>> Default Node Type for Microsoft Clients
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;160177
>
>Not true, W2K uses DNS by default. The above document pertains only to node
>type as far as netbios broadcasting alone is concerned. A W2K hosts will
>attempt to consult in sequence:
>(the last 3 depend on node type and dhcp settings)
>
>a) host file
>b) DNS server
>c) broadcast (if b-node)
>d) Wins server
>e) lmhost file
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...c_tcp_jqlt.asp

I think that we're both right. I'm describing W2K's behavior in a
workgroup, where there's no DNS server, and you're describing W2K's
behavior in a domain.

>> In my experience, W2K behaves perfectly well in a workgroup, sharing
>> files and printers with all versions of Windows using NetBIOS
>> broadcasts.
>>
>> I've never found it necessary to create HOSTS or LMHOSTS files on any
>> single-subnet workgroup network, regardless of the versions of Windows
>> being used.
>
>I never suggested it wouldn't work, specially in an environment where an NT4
>server is master browser. But in an environment where performance is an
>issue and network activity requires efficiency, W2K gains immensely from the
>presence of a dns server or a host file. In other areas, like setting up
>trust relationships, dns is a requirement.

Again, I'm talking workgroup and you're talking domain. There aren't
trust relationships or DNS servers in a workgroup.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm

"Steve Winograd [MVP]" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <vLU5b.11395$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> "Salt_Peter" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> According to this Microsoft Knowledge Base article, W2K only uses DNS
> >> if both broadcast and WINS fail to resolve a name:
> >>
> >> Default Node Type for Microsoft Clients
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;160177
> >
> >Not true, W2K uses DNS by default. The above document pertains only to
node
> >type as far as netbios broadcasting alone is concerned. A W2K hosts will
> >attempt to consult in sequence:
> >(the last 3 depend on node type and dhcp settings)
> >
> >a) host file
> >b) DNS server
> >c) broadcast (if b-node)
> >d) Wins server
> >e) lmhost file
> >
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...ork/prcc_tcp_j
qlt.asp
>
> I think that we're both right. I'm describing W2K's behavior in a
> workgroup, where there's no DNS server, and you're describing W2K's
> behavior in a domain.

No i'm not, install W2K network monitor on a stand-alone server and observe
the network activity. The sequence mentioned above is not workgroup related.
In fact, as the techinfo document clearly states, the W2K Pro client will
attempt a connection to DNS even if a Wins server is present on the network.
And a domain isn't required to run DNS.

Took my a while to actually find the techinfo doc, but i didn't really need
it, i strongly suggest running a W2K or NT4 network monitor, preferably in
promiscuous mode, and you'll clearly notice the DNS query before
broadcasting is attempted by a W2K client.

Also, you'ld realize just how much activity netbios resolution adds to
network traffic. While netbios is fine for a small home workgroup that
doesn't require or use routers, it spells disaster in corporate networks.
That's why W2K's sole purpose is to replace NT4's netbios name resolution.

>
> >> In my experience, W2K behaves perfectly well in a workgroup, sharing
> >> files and printers with all versions of Windows using NetBIOS
> >> broadcasts.
> >>
> >> I've never found it necessary to create HOSTS or LMHOSTS files on any
> >> single-subnet workgroup network, regardless of the versions of Windows
> >> being used.
> >
> >I never suggested it wouldn't work, specially in an environment where an
NT4
> >server is master browser. But in an environment where performance is an
> >issue and network activity requires efficiency, W2K gains immensely from
the
> >presence of a dns server or a host file. In other areas, like setting up
> >trust relationships, dns is a requirement.
>
> Again, I'm talking workgroup and you're talking domain. There aren't
> trust relationships or DNS servers in a workgroup.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional - Windows Networking
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> Steve Winograd's Networking FAQ
> http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/faq.htm