Ad-hoc network with more than 2 laptops?

Do ad-hoc networks support more than 2 laptops? I ask as I have problems
adding a third laptop to a WEP-protected ad-hoc network. The network is
found on the third laptop but it thinks the network is not protected. It
doesn't ask for a WEP key but simply tries to connect which doesn't work of
course. All laptops run Windows XP and there is no problem to create an
ad-hoc network between two laptops. Before I go on trying to figure out
what's wrong I would like to know if WEP-protected ad-hoc networks support
more than 2 laptops at all?

Boris

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:52:01 +0100, "Boris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Do ad-hoc networks support more than 2 laptops?

Yes. The maximum number of clients in an ad-hoc network is 9 clients.

>I ask as I have problems
>adding a third laptop to a WEP-protected ad-hoc network. The network is
>found on the third laptop but it thinks the network is not protected. It
>doesn't ask for a WEP key but simply tries to connect which doesn't work of
>course. All laptops run Windows XP and there is no problem to create an
>ad-hoc network between two laptops. Before I go on trying to figure out
>what's wrong I would like to know if WEP-protected ad-hoc networks support
>more than 2 laptops at all?

Yes, they should. The usual problem is the nature of the WEP key. Use
Hex instead of ASCII and it will probably work. The problem is the
ASCII to Hex conversion. My guess(tm) is the client that isn't asking
for a WEP key has one already configured into the Windoze client
software. It's not working and Windoze is waiting far too long to ask
for a WEP key that works.

--
Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
831.336.2558 voice
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann
(E-Mail Removed) (E-Mail Removed)

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:52:01 +0100, "Boris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> [...]
>>ad-hoc network between two laptops. Before I go on trying to figure out
>>what's wrong I would like to know if WEP-protected ad-hoc networks support
>>more than 2 laptops at all?
>
> Yes, they should. The usual problem is the nature of the WEP key. Use
> Hex instead of ASCII and it will probably work. The problem is the
> ASCII to Hex conversion. My guess(tm) is the client that isn't asking
> for a WEP key has one already configured into the Windoze client

Thanks for your reply, Jeff! The software I use on that third laptop is
called Broadcom Wireless Utility (from
http://h18007.www1.hp.com/support/fi...ad/21026.html).
There is a scan-button to search for networks. When I click on this button I
find the ad-hoc network but the found network is said to be unprotected.
Only when the other client is not connected to the ad-hoc network it
understands that the network is indeed WEP-protected.

What do you mean with already configured WEP key? Similar to Windows XP Zero
Configuration I can chose a network in a list of available networks in the
Broadcom Wireless Utility. When I connect to the ad-hoc network I am asked
to enter the WEP key. This works perfectly but only when the other client is
switched off and doesn't use the ad-hoc network already.

> software. It's not working and Windoze is waiting far too long to ask
> for a WEP key that works.

Your guess is right that I had to change the WEP key to Hex already. With a
Hex key both clients can connect to the host - however only one at a time.
Whenever the other client is using the ad-hoc network the third laptop
doesn't understand that the ad-hoc network is actually protected.

For what it's worth I could change from WEP to WPA/TKIP. However I had
already a problem setting up the Windows XP host as it didn't show any
network when I switched to WPA/TKIP. If I can't get WEP to work I might give
WPA/TKIP however another try.

Boris

Boris wrote:
> "Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>Snip.................................
>>
>>Yes, they should. The usual problem is the nature of the WEP key. Use
>>Hex instead of ASCII and it will probably work. The problem is the
>>ASCII to Hex conversion. My guess(tm) is the client that isn't asking
>>for a WEP key has one already configured into the Windoze client
>
>
> Snip..................................
>
> What do you mean with already configured WEP key? Similar to Windows XP Zero
> Configuration I can chose a network in a list of available networks in the
> Broadcom Wireless Utility. When I connect to the ad-hoc network I am asked
> to enter the WEP key. This works perfectly but only when the other client is
> switched off and doesn't use the ad-hoc network already.
>
>
>>software. It's not working and Windoze is waiting far too long to ask
>>for a WEP key that works.
>
>
> Your guess is right that I had to change the WEP key to Hex already. With a
> Hex key both clients can connect to the host - however only one at a time.
> Whenever the other client is using the ad-hoc network the third laptop
> doesn't understand that the ad-hoc network is actually protected.
>
>Snip.....................................
> Boris
>
>

Questions 1.Were you able to set up a network without any encryption?
2.Did you assign each of computers a different static IP
within the same subnet (from what I remember you will have no DHCP
server in your ad-hoc network)?

Rob

Rob wrote:
>
> Questions 1.Were you able to set up a network without any encryption?
> 2.Did you assign each of computers a different static IP
> within the same subnet (from what I remember you will have no DHCP
> server in your ad-hoc network)?

You _might_. With an Ad-hoc network it's no different from a wired network
- if one of the machines is going to be a gateway to the Internet, you need
to set it up with Internet Connection Sharing, in which case it will be
acting as a DHCP server to the wireless "clients".
--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
>>Questions 1.Were you able to set up a network without any encryption?
>> 2.Did you assign each of computers a different static IP
>>within the same subnet (from what I remember you will have no DHCP
>>server in your ad-hoc network)?
>
>
> You _might_. With an Ad-hoc network it's no different from a wired network
> - if one of the machines is going to be a gateway to the Internet, you need
> to set it up with Internet Connection Sharing, in which case it will be
> acting as a DHCP server to the wireless "clients".

There was no mention of an internet connection or ICS in the OP which
was why I asked the question.

"Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
news:dm4shi$gq7$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>
>>>Questions 1.Were you able to set up a network without any encryption?
>>> 2.Did you assign each of computers a different static IP
>>>within the same subnet (from what I remember you will have no DHCP
>>>server in your ad-hoc network)?
>>
>>
>> You _might_. With an Ad-hoc network it's no different from a wired
>> network
>> - if one of the machines is going to be a gateway to the Internet, you
>> need
>> to set it up with Internet Connection Sharing, in which case it will be
>> acting as a DHCP server to the wireless "clients".
>
> There was no mention of an internet connection or ICS in the OP which was
> why I asked the question.

Here's some more information: The host is indeed used for ICS (I used
Windows XP Zero Configuration to set up ICS with DHCP). Everything's working
fine as long as only one laptop connects. It gets a 192.168.0.x IP assigned
and can browse the Internet. Problems start when another laptop wants to
connect to the host. I don't expect DHCP to cause any problems as it should
assign another 192.168.0.y IP to the third laptop?

Regarding Rob's first question: I didn't try yet to set up the network
without encryption. I will try next when the third laptop is available again
(hopefully tomorrow).

Thanks so far for your help,
Boris

Boris wrote:
Snip.............................................. .......
>
> Here's some more information: The host is indeed used for ICS (I used
> Windows XP Zero Configuration to set up ICS with DHCP).

This has confused me."Zero Config to set up ICS"?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=306126


Everything's working
> fine as long as only one laptop connects. It gets a 192.168.0.x IP assigned
> and can browse the Internet. Problems start when another laptop wants to
> connect to the host. I don't expect DHCP to cause any problems as it should
> assign another 192.168.0.y IP to the third laptop?
>
> Regarding Rob's first question: I didn't try yet to set up the network
> without encryption. I will try next when the third laptop is available again
> (hopefully tomorrow).
>
> Thanks so far for your help,
> Boris
>
>
Since you have managed to get 2 laptops to talk to each other is it
possible that both of the clients have been alloocated the same IP?
Have you tried doing
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
on both clients to see if this makes any difference?

"Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
news:dm58s5$kli$(E-Mail Removed)...
> [...] Since you have managed to get 2 laptops to talk to each other is it
> possible that both of the clients have been alloocated the same IP?

The third laptop is trying for quite a long time to log into the network.
After some time it says it is connected. But when I check the IP it is in
another range than 192.168 (and has no gateway nor DNS).

> Have you tried doing
> ipconfig /release
> ipconfig /renew
> on both clients to see if this makes any difference?

I tried to repair the connection by clicking on the repair-button in the
property window of the wireless connection. It doesn't help though. In my
humble opinion the problems are caused by something else. The Broadcom
Wireless Utility on the third laptop scans the area to find networks and
creates a list of found networks including their properties. In this list
the ad-hoc network here is said to be unprotected. This is before I even
start to connect to the network.

Some more details: On the host (Realtek RTL8139C) I used Windows XP Zero
Configuration to set up the ad-hoc network (and ICS with DHCP). On the
clients I used both Windows XP Zero Configuration and a software from the
wireless card producers (one is Broadcom, the other one KCorp) but neither
worked. On the third laptop both Windows XP Zero Configuration and the
wireless utilities think the network is unprotected.

I wait until I have the third laptop again (might take a few days) and try
then to connect all of the laptops without any encryption. However what
could be the reason that the third laptop thinks the network is unprotected
even before I try to connect? I don't know anything about the protocols in
an ad-hoc network. But is it possible that Windows XP Zero Configuration
"closes" the ad-hoc network after one client is connected (by sending false
information to other clients)?

Boris

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, "Boris" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>"Rob" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>news:dm58s5$kli$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> [...] Since you have managed to get 2 laptops to talk to each other is it
>> possible that both of the clients have been alloocated the same IP?
>
>The third laptop is trying for quite a long time to log into the network.
>After some time it says it is connected. But when I check the IP it is in
>another range than 192.168 (and has no gateway nor DNS).

Its failing to get an IP from the DHCP server, I forget the IP, but Windows
will default to some IP (not one of the private network ranges) if it
thinks it is on a network and fails to get a proper responce from thr
DHCLReq signal it sends.

First thing I would do is turn off all security on the LAN and see if I can
just get everything 'talking'. For this I would disconnect the PC that is
actually connected to the Internet. Again all we are doing here is trying
to ensure everything on the LAN can see each other and such, then start one
thing at a time adding complexity. First addition (once all three can see
each other) is reconnect the 'server' to the Internet. (are all these
conputers in the same Workgroup and or Domain or does that even come up in
XP home edition?). Once all three see the internet, then add the Wireless
security one computer at a time.

>
>> Have you tried doing
>> ipconfig /release
>> ipconfig /renew
>> on both clients to see if this makes any difference?
>
>I tried to repair the connection by clicking on the repair-button in the
>property window of the wireless connection. It doesn't help though. In my
>humble opinion the problems are caused by something else. The Broadcom
>Wireless Utility on the third laptop scans the area to find networks and
>creates a list of found networks including their properties. In this list
>the ad-hoc network here is said to be unprotected. This is before I even
>start to connect to the network.

One other thing to do, check on the HP site and make sure your actual
Wireless driver is up-to-date. The utility you are using to configure it is
well over 1 year old. Perhaps there is a new driver for your chipset for
the wireless 'card'. I also have an HP with Broadcom wireless, and in less
then a year have seen two driver updates.


>
>Some more details: On the host (Realtek RTL8139C) I used Windows XP Zero
>Configuration to set up the ad-hoc network (and ICS with DHCP). On the
>clients I used both Windows XP Zero Configuration and a software from the
>wireless card producers (one is Broadcom, the other one KCorp) but neither
>worked. On the third laptop both Windows XP Zero Configuration and the
>wireless utilities think the network is unprotected.
>
>I wait until I have the third laptop again (might take a few days) and try
>then to connect all of the laptops without any encryption. However what
>could be the reason that the third laptop thinks the network is unprotected
>even before I try to connect? I don't know anything about the protocols in
>an ad-hoc network. But is it possible that Windows XP Zero Configuration
>"closes" the ad-hoc network after one client is connected (by sending false
>information to other clients)?

No. Certainly not with three on the network.

>
>Boris
>
>

fundamentalism, fundamentally wrong.