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Accessing another access point

 
 
Wal
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      05-18-2005, 11:03 AM
Simple question I hope:
Using a simple wireless access point with a coverage of the average house
block, if someone used a long range directional or other antenna could they
reach this access point or do both machines need to be using antennas of the
same size/strength and point to each other?

Another example:
Theres a hotspot in a cafe which covers inside and outside of the immediate
premises. If you sat a 100 meters or so away with a decent directional
antenna and have good line of sight could you link on to it or would it need
a similar antenna pointing back to you? I am not about to gain access
illegally anywhere but do want to link up on a similar situation with my own
hardware.

Regards
Wal


 
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Floyd L. Davidson
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      05-18-2005, 11:41 AM
"Wal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Simple question I hope:
>Using a simple wireless access point with a coverage of the average house
>block, if someone used a long range directional or other antenna could they
>reach this access point or do both machines need to be using antennas of the
>same size/strength and point to each other?


Antenna gain at either end is equivalent. So if a neighbor can
connect to your AP by using an antenna with 12 dBi of gain
(replacing the standard one that we'll say is 2 dBi), the exact
same effect could be had by instead replacing your 2 dBi antenna
with one of 12 dBi, or also by using 7 dBi antennas at both
ends. The requirement is that a total of 10 dB be added, and it
makes no difference if it is 10 dB to his end, 10 dB to your
end, or 5 to each end.

Note that antennas add gain for both transmit and receive
directions too. Transmit power on the other hand, provides gain
in one direction only. Hence just increasing the power output
of one end does not have the same effect as a better antenna,
but increasing power at both ends does.

>Another example:
>Theres a hotspot in a cafe which covers inside and outside of the immediate
>premises. If you sat a 100 meters or so away with a decent directional
>antenna and have good line of sight could you link on to it or would it need
>a similar antenna pointing back to you? I am not about to gain access
>illegally anywhere but do want to link up on a similar situation with my own
>hardware.


A cafe hotspot is *clearly* being advertized as available for
use, so there is nothing illegal about connecting to it. A high
gain antenna will certainly increase the range at which a connection
is possible. Typically for every 6 dB additional gain the range
will be doubled.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)
 
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Wal
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      05-18-2005, 12:55 PM
Thanks for that Floyd.

Explained well and understood.

Regards
Wal


"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Wal" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >Simple question I hope:
> >Using a simple wireless access point with a coverage of the average house
> >block, if someone used a long range directional or other antenna could

they
> >reach this access point or do both machines need to be using antennas of

the
> >same size/strength and point to each other?

>
> Antenna gain at either end is equivalent. So if a neighbor can
> connect to your AP by using an antenna with 12 dBi of gain
> (replacing the standard one that we'll say is 2 dBi), the exact
> same effect could be had by instead replacing your 2 dBi antenna
> with one of 12 dBi, or also by using 7 dBi antennas at both
> ends. The requirement is that a total of 10 dB be added, and it
> makes no difference if it is 10 dB to his end, 10 dB to your
> end, or 5 to each end.
>
> Note that antennas add gain for both transmit and receive
> directions too. Transmit power on the other hand, provides gain
> in one direction only. Hence just increasing the power output
> of one end does not have the same effect as a better antenna,
> but increasing power at both ends does.
>
> >Another example:
> >Theres a hotspot in a cafe which covers inside and outside of the

immediate
> >premises. If you sat a 100 meters or so away with a decent directional
> >antenna and have good line of sight could you link on to it or would it

need
> >a similar antenna pointing back to you? I am not about to gain access
> >illegally anywhere but do want to link up on a similar situation with my

own
> >hardware.

>
> A cafe hotspot is *clearly* being advertized as available for
> use, so there is nothing illegal about connecting to it. A high
> gain antenna will certainly increase the range at which a connection
> is possible. Typically for every 6 dB additional gain the range
> will be doubled.
>
> --
> Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)



 
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Will-Lee-Cue
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      05-18-2005, 01:00 PM

"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> A cafe hotspot is *clearly* being advertized as available for
> use, so there is nothing illegal about connecting to it.



Floyd, isn't it a safe assumption that the cafe set up that hotspot for the
use of their customers and not for the neighborhood in general?
Is there some moral issue here that you are using something that was not
intended for you to use?
Are you being imoral and iresponsible in saying that it is OK to do so?

Personally I see nothing wrong or imoral with using "ANY" (unprotected)
wireless connection unless you intend using it in a harmful manor (hacking,
snooping for personal files, or illegal activity).

You have stated otherwise in past posts and even questioned my character and
morality for giving the same advice you just gave.
Isn't that being kinda hypocritical or are you just confused about using
open wireless connections?

William Lee


 
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Floyd L. Davidson
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      05-18-2005, 01:45 PM
"Will-Lee-Cue" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>> A cafe hotspot is *clearly* being advertized as available for
>> use, so there is nothing illegal about connecting to it.

>
>Floyd, isn't it a safe assumption that the cafe set up that hotspot for the
>use of their customers and not for the neighborhood in general?


Your article is nonsense.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)
 
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Will-Lee-Cue
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      05-18-2005, 02:04 PM

I think you are right Floyd.
The whole argument is nonsense.
Shall we agree that we disagree and let the whole thing drop?

William Lee


"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Will-Lee-Cue" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>
>>> A cafe hotspot is *clearly* being advertized as available for
>>> use, so there is nothing illegal about connecting to it.

>>
>>Floyd, isn't it a safe assumption that the cafe set up that hotspot for
>>the
>>use of their customers and not for the neighborhood in general?

>
> Your article is nonsense.
>
> --
> Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
> Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)



 
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