access to homeserver from LAN and internet

I've got the following issue;
My homenetwork is behind a router which is connected to the providers modem,
my home-lan is in the range 192.168.50.xxx. I registered a domain name
linked it to my external IP-address (fixed) and configured my router to
forward the ports to my server, so I have it working succesfully with my
server; ftp.mydomain.com works perfectly when connecting from the internet.

But... when I get home and fire up my laptop (within my home network, so
from the same subnet), the only way to connect to the server is via its IP
address 192.168.50.2 connecting through the domainname no longer works. When
trying to reach the webserver by domainname for example, I end up on the
configuration page of the ADSL modem.

I tried using hosts files to fix this, so switching hosts files depending on
where I am, but for my room mates (anti-techy people) this is not an option.

How to fix it? any help would be greatly appreciated!

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:54:50 +0200, Tieske put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>I've got the following issue;
>My homenetwork is behind a router which is connected to the providers modem,
>my home-lan is in the range 192.168.50.xxx. I registered a domain name
>linked it to my external IP-address (fixed) and configured my router to
>forward the ports to my server, so I have it working succesfully with my
>server; ftp.mydomain.com works perfectly when connecting from the internet.
>
>But... when I get home and fire up my laptop (within my home network, so
>from the same subnet), the only way to connect to the server is via its IP
>address 192.168.50.2 connecting through the domainname no longer works. When
>trying to reach the webserver by domainname for example, I end up on the
>configuration page of the ADSL modem.
>
>I tried using hosts files to fix this, so switching hosts files depending on
>where I am, but for my room mates (anti-techy people) this is not an option.
>
>How to fix it? any help would be greatly appreciated!

Editing the HOSTS file is the simple (and technically correct) way to
achieve what you want, but it has to be done on all the machines
inside the network for it to work. Other than that, there isn't an
easy way to fix this unless you can also run an internal DNS server
which will return the internal IP address of the web server to any
machine accessing it from inside the network. But that also requires
all the machines inside the network to be configured to use your
internal DNS server rather than any external ones, so this isn't a
non-techy option either.

Another option is to have two names for the server, one with the
external IP address and one internal, like this:

www.mydomain.com IN A 85.85.85.85
inside.mydomain.com IN A 192.168.50.2

and then use http://inside.mydomain.com from inside the network and
http://www.mydomain.com from outside. That's not significantly
different from using an IP address internally, of course, but it does
have the advantage that the internal name is a bit easier to remember.

A third option, and the only one that will work without requiring any
configuration changes to machines inside the LAN or using different
addresses inside and out, is to get a second IP address and assign it
solely to the server.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk

"Mark Goodge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) house.net...
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 11:54:50 +0200, Tieske put finger to keyboard and
> typed:
>
>>I've got the following issue;
>>My homenetwork is behind a router which is connected to the providers
>>modem,
>>my home-lan is in the range 192.168.50.xxx. I registered a domain name
>>linked it to my external IP-address (fixed) and configured my router to
>>forward the ports to my server, so I have it working succesfully with my
>>server; ftp.mydomain.com works perfectly when connecting from the
>>internet.
>>
>>But... when I get home and fire up my laptop (within my home network, so
>>from the same subnet), the only way to connect to the server is via its IP
>>address 192.168.50.2 connecting through the domainname no longer works.
>>When
>>trying to reach the webserver by domainname for example, I end up on the
>>configuration page of the ADSL modem.
>>
>>I tried using hosts files to fix this, so switching hosts files depending
>>on
>>where I am, but for my room mates (anti-techy people) this is not an
>>option.
>>
>>How to fix it? any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Editing the HOSTS file is the simple (and technically correct) way to
> achieve what you want, but it has to be done on all the machines
> inside the network for it to work. Other than that, there isn't an
> easy way to fix this unless you can also run an internal DNS server
> which will return the internal IP address of the web server to any
> machine accessing it from inside the network. But that also requires
> all the machines inside the network to be configured to use your
> internal DNS server rather than any external ones, so this isn't a
> non-techy option either.
>
> Another option is to have two names for the server, one with the
> external IP address and one internal, like this:
>
> www.mydomain.com IN A 85.85.85.85
> inside.mydomain.com IN A 192.168.50.2
>
> and then use http://inside.mydomain.com from inside the network and
> http://www.mydomain.com from outside. That's not significantly
> different from using an IP address internally, of course, but it does
> have the advantage that the internal name is a bit easier to remember.
>
> A third option, and the only one that will work without requiring any
> configuration changes to machines inside the LAN or using different
> addresses inside and out, is to get a second IP address and assign it
> solely to the server.
>
> Mark
> --
> Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk Photos: http://www.goodge.co.uk

Thanks, finally some light at the end of the tunnel....

The option with the DNS server or your third option may work, but the latter
sounds more difficult (requesting official stuff etc.)

So about the DNS service; if I would run it on my server, then I can
configure my router to get the DNS from that server, right? all clients use
DHCP and get their IP address and the DNS info from the router, which would
then be primarily be my own DNS server and secondary an external DNS server.
So... I would say this is a non-techy solution, where you say it is... where
am I going wrong?

If I am want to set it up; dunno anything about DNS (only that its pretty
important), so any suggestions on a freeware DNS server and how to configure
it for this purpose?

thx for your help!

Thijs

On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 18:54:49 +0200, Tieske put finger to keyboard and
typed:

>
>"Mark Goodge" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed) shouse.net...
>>
>> Editing the HOSTS file is the simple (and technically correct) way to
>> achieve what you want, but it has to be done on all the machines
>> inside the network for it to work. Other than that, there isn't an
>> easy way to fix this unless you can also run an internal DNS server
>> which will return the internal IP address of the web server to any
>> machine accessing it from inside the network. But that also requires
>> all the machines inside the network to be configured to use your
>> internal DNS server rather than any external ones, so this isn't a
>> non-techy option either.
>
>Thanks, finally some light at the end of the tunnel....
>
>The option with the DNS server or your third option may work, but the latter
>sounds more difficult (requesting official stuff etc.)
>
>So about the DNS service; if I would run it on my server, then I can
>configure my router to get the DNS from that server, right? all clients use
>DHCP and get their IP address and the DNS info from the router, which would
>then be primarily be my own DNS server and secondary an external DNS server.
>So... I would say this is a non-techy solution, where you say it is... where
>am I going wrong?

You'd need to make sure that all the internal machines are configured
to be assigned DNS servers by the DHCP server instead of of having
them hard-coded. You can't assume that it will be that way, although
it's reasonably common. But you'd also need to know how to runa DNS
server, which isn't that easy.

>If I am want to set it up; dunno anything about DNS (only that its pretty
>important), so any suggestions on a freeware DNS server and how to configure
>it for this purpose?

It can run on the same machine as your web server. If that's running
Linux, then BIND is the most commonly used DNS server software. If
your web server is Windows XP Professional (or Windows 2003 Server),
then you can run MS DNS Server as a network service.

Mark
--
Visit: http://www.MineOfUseless.info - everything you never needed to know!

>
>>If I am want to set it up; dunno anything about DNS (only that its pretty
>>important), so any suggestions on a freeware DNS server and how to
>>configure
>>it for this purpose?
>
> It can run on the same machine as your web server. If that's running
> Linux, then BIND is the most commonly used DNS server software. If
> your web server is Windows XP Professional (or Windows 2003 Server),
> then you can run MS DNS Server as a network service.
>

I use Win XP Pro (actually the media center edition), though I could not
find the MS DNS Server on XP, probably only available on the server
versions? But found something else; TreeWalk a freeware DNS server,
installed it. Everything still seems to work (in the old way, so still no
access via domain names from home), yet the DNS service is now provided by
my server.
I'll now have to figure out how to change the DNS configuration on the
server to make it work the way I want.

Thanks for your help.

"Tieske" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44d46aeb$0$91079$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've got the following issue;
> My homenetwork is behind a router which is connected to the providers
> modem, my home-lan is in the range 192.168.50.xxx. I registered a domain
> name linked it to my external IP-address (fixed) and configured my router
> to forward the ports to my server, so I have it working succesfully with
> my server; ftp.mydomain.com works perfectly when connecting from the
> internet.
>
> But... when I get home and fire up my laptop (within my home network, so
> from the same subnet), the only way to connect to the server is via its IP
> address 192.168.50.2 connecting through the domainname no longer works.
> When trying to reach the webserver by domainname for example, I end up on
> the configuration page of the ADSL modem.
>
> I tried using hosts files to fix this, so switching hosts files depending
> on where I am, but for my room mates (anti-techy people) this is not an
> option.
>

Your external DNS record will be pointing at the external port on your
router. www.domain and domain will then resolve to the same external IP
address. You will separate HTTP (port 80) from FTP (port 21) by port
forwarding.

Port forwarding however may not work from inside your network. The IP
address will resolve and your default gateway will route to your router but
which will then detect that it is an internal address and not an external
address.

A suggestion is to change (if possible) the port number your router uses for
its configuration page to something else e.g. port 81 and then access it
using :81 at the end of the url. See if you can then set up a rule for port
forwarding from your INTERNAL network from when access your EXTERNAL
address. If this works it should solve your problem and will be much
simpler.

>
> Your external DNS record will be pointing at the external port on your
> router. www.domain and domain will then resolve to the same external IP
> address. You will separate HTTP (port 80) from FTP (port 21) by port
> forwarding.
>
> Port forwarding however may not work from inside your network. The IP
> address will resolve and your default gateway will route to your router
> but which will then detect that it is an internal address and not an
> external address.
>
> A suggestion is to change (if possible) the port number your router uses
> for its configuration page to something else e.g. port 81 and then access
> it using :81 at the end of the url. See if you can then set up a rule for
> port forwarding from your INTERNAL network from when access your EXTERNAL
> address. If this works it should solve your problem and will be much
> simpler.
>
Thanks for you input John, I tried the following;
As both 80 and 21 ports might be used by the router, I configured an SMTP
server on smtp.mydomain.com, while using port 2525 for it.
Sending email via the smtp.mydomain.com works perfectly from the outside,
but not from the inside.

I'm afraid that the router (supplied by the provider, so I can't replace it)
does not support this. So I suppose I'm back to installing my own DNS server
.....