802.11b/g problems for apartment dwellers

I have 2 questions.

1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
apartment building?
2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?

Here is the scenario I am in:

I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
warwalking.
All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have my
own free channel. I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel
11.
2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
same time.
Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
incrementing fast and furious.

I've tried following harware.
AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB, Linksys
PCMCIA

Thanks ...

On 22 Mar 2005 04:03:02 -0800, "w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
>I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
>When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
>90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
>minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
>same time.

That sounds exactly like a leaky microwave oven, especially if it
coincides with the usual meal times. If it's not your microwave oven,
it's someone else's. It's not easy to find such a source of
interference. Basically, you need a 2.4Ghz spectrum analyzer,
directional antenna, and lots of luck as you only have 2-3 minutes to
find it before it goes off the air. If you're on good terms with the
neighbors, get a cheap microwave oven leakage tester and offer to test
the "safety" of their oven for free. Be prepared to clean some really
gross and disgusting looking door seals.

Since all clients appear to lose connectivity at the same time, it's
my guess(tm) that the access point is the one that's picking up the
interference. Try moving it to a more protected location, away from
probable sources of microwave oven leakage (i.e. windows).


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 22 Mar 2005 04:03:02 -0800, "w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have 2 questions.
>
>1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
>apartment building?
>2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
>disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
>
>Here is the scenario I am in:
>
>I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
>netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
>warwalking.
>All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have my
>own free channel.

You can use 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, or 14.

>I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel 11.
>2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
>I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
>When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
>90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
>minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
>same time.
>Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
>incrementing fast and furious.
>
>I've tried following harware.
>AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
>NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB, Linksys
>PCMCIA
>
>Thanks ...

Barry

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:22:08 +1100, Barry OGrady <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>You can use 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, or 14.

Not really. The channels are 5Mhz wide. The typical 802.11b/g signal
is about 23Mhz wide thus covering 5 channels. The only
non-overlapping channels in the US are 1, 6, and 11.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

Have you thought of going 802.11a? You can get a 802.11a access point for
your apartment and get a 802.11a/b/g client so you can be compliant with
other networks and hotspots you want to connect to. Below are some links to
combo clients.

http://www.smarter.com/product.php?p...nktomi_1917383
http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.as...mp&dcaid=17282
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...00000001827170
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...s=19&c=us&l=en


Robert...

"w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>I have 2 questions.
>
> 1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
> apartment building?
> 2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
> disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
>
> Here is the scenario I am in:
>
> I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
> netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
> warwalking.
> All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have my
> own free channel. I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel
> 11.
> 2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
> I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
> When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
> 90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
> minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
> same time.
> Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
> incrementing fast and furious.
>
> I've tried following harware.
> AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
> NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB, Linksys
> PCMCIA
>
> Thanks ...
>

w1llr0ut34f00d <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I have 2 questions.
>
> 1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
> apartment building?
> 2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
> disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
>
> Here is the scenario I am in:
>
> I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
> netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
> warwalking.

Are those *all* the SSIDs or just the ones that were broadcasting?
Perhaps other people in your building have bought into the myth that
disabling SSID broadcast is a security measure. In your second question,
you list one real security measure (WPA) and three placebos.

To complicate things further, a lot of people keep their wireless
equipment turned off most of the time, making it even harder to figure
out which channels are being used. You might need to keep Netstumbler
running for many hours to see what the neighborhood usage pattern is.

'a' has such a poor range that it's not worth it. It's about 1/3 of what you
can expect with b or g (at best).


On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:57:31 GMT, "DLink Guru" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Have you thought of going 802.11a? You can get a 802.11a access point for
>your apartment and get a 802.11a/b/g client so you can be compliant with
>other networks and hotspots you want to connect to. Below are some links to
>combo clients.
>
>Robert...
>
>"w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed) roups.com...
>>I have 2 questions.
>>
>> 1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
>> apartment building?
>> 2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
>> disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
>>
>> Here is the scenario I am in:
>>
>> I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
>> netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
>> warwalking.
>> All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have my
>> own free channel. I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel
>> 11.
>> 2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
>> I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
>> When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
>> 90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
>> minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
>> same time.
>> Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
>> incrementing fast and furious.
>>
>> I've tried following harware.
>> AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
>> NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB, Linksys
>> PCMCIA
>>
>> Thanks ...
>>
>

You missed the "apartment dwellers" bit of the original post.

802.11a gives you more bits per second per cubic foot which is
the salient metric here.

---


~ 'a' has such a poor range that it's not worth it. It's about 1/3 of what you
~ can expect with b or g (at best).
~
~
~ On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:57:31 GMT, "DLink Guru" <(E-Mail Removed)>
~ wrote:
~
~ >Have you thought of going 802.11a? You can get a 802.11a access point for
~ >your apartment and get a 802.11a/b/g client so you can be compliant with
~ >other networks and hotspots you want to connect to. Below are some links to
~ >combo clients.
~ >
~ >Robert...
~ >
~ >"w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
~ >news:(E-Mail Removed) roups.com...
~ >>I have 2 questions.
~ >>
~ >> 1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
~ >> apartment building?
~ >> 2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
~ >> disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
~ >>
~ >> Here is the scenario I am in:
~ >>
~ >> I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
~ >> netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
~ >> warwalking.
~ >> All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have my
~ >> own free channel. I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel
~ >> 11.
~ >> 2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even when
~ >> I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
~ >> When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
~ >> 90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
~ >> minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at the
~ >> same time.
~ >> Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
~ >> incrementing fast and furious.
~ >>
~ >> I've tried following harware.
~ >> AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
~ >> NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB, Linksys
~ >> PCMCIA
~ >>
~ >> Thanks ...
~ >>
~ >

Correct, and unless he is in a 1500 square feet apartment or larger, "A"
would work just fine.

Robert...

"Aaron Leonard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> You missed the "apartment dwellers" bit of the original post.
>
> 802.11a gives you more bits per second per cubic foot which is
> the salient metric here.
>
> ---
>
>
> ~ 'a' has such a poor range that it's not worth it. It's about 1/3 of
> what you
> ~ can expect with b or g (at best).
> ~
> ~
> ~ On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:57:31 GMT, "DLink Guru"
> <(E-Mail Removed)>
> ~ wrote:
> ~
> ~ >Have you thought of going 802.11a? You can get a 802.11a access point
> for
> ~ >your apartment and get a 802.11a/b/g client so you can be compliant
> with
> ~ >other networks and hotspots you want to connect to. Below are some
> links to
> ~ >combo clients.
> ~ >
> ~ >Robert...
> ~ >
> ~ >"w1llr0ut34f00d" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> ~ >news:(E-Mail Removed) roups.com...
> ~ >>I have 2 questions.
> ~ >>
> ~ >> 1. How can I configure access point and wireless NIC card in an
> ~ >> apartment building?
> ~ >> 2. If I enable WPA, disable SSID broadcast, filter MAC address and
> ~ >> disable DHCP, is it secure enough for a home?
> ~ >>
> ~ >> Here is the scenario I am in:
> ~ >>
> ~ >> I live in an apartment building and the last time I checked, using
> ~ >> netstumbler, there were 7 SSIDs in my neighborhood and I was't
> ~ >> warwalking.
> ~ >> All those SSIDs already covered channel 1, 6 and 11 so I cannot have
> my
> ~ >> own free channel. I have a 2.4G cordless phone that is set to channel
> ~ >> 11.
> ~ >> 2 or 3 times a day, my wireless NICs lost visibility of my AP even
> when
> ~ >> I was not using my phone nor my microwave.
> ~ >> When connectivity is good, both signal strength and link quality are
> ~ >> 90%+. When NICs lost connectivity, it cannot be restored for 2 or 3
> ~ >> minutes. Lost of connectivity is experienced by all the machines at
> the
> ~ >> same time.
> ~ >> Even when connectivity is good, PLCP errors and MAC error are
> ~ >> incrementing fast and furious.
> ~ >>
> ~ >> I've tried following harware.
> ~ >> AP : Cisco 350, Netgear, Belkin, Linksys, SMC
> ~ >> NICs : Cisco 350 PCMCIA, Netgear PCMCIA/USB, Belkin PCMCIA/USB,
> Linksys
> ~ >> PCMCIA
> ~ >>
> ~ >> Thanks ...
> ~ >>
> ~ >
>

Jeff,

I think you're right on the money. I moved AP near a window, far from
other apartments and my kitchen, I did not lost connectivity for last 2
days. Not only that, if I remembered correctly, all connectivity
problem happened between between 7pm-10pm (time my neighbors heat up
their food ???).

I'll try to investigate more let y'll know if I find something new.
As a side note, I added
(http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/) to my AP.

Thanks to everyone in this discussion for their insights.

- Joe