50% Packet loss hit every minute on the minute-Doenst miss a beat. Please Help

I recently went to wireless in my house. 4 computers total. All network
stuff works but every 60 seconds (+or- 5 seconds) I take a 50% packet loss
hit. This happens every minute.. never skips a beat. I am using Linksys
wireless-B router and linksys Wireless-B NIC's. This happens on all 4
machines and it never happened when using Ethernet (2 days ago). I have been
to the Linksys tech support but they have been unable to help me. This
happens with and without 128 bit encryption. Signal strength and Link
quality are both excellent

Router is a BEFW11S4

What I have done:
- Upgraded to the most recent Firmware (1.50.14 from 1.50.10)
- Reset the Router and DSL modem (Westell Wirespeed) and
shutdown and restarted all the computers
- Adjusted the MTU to one that does not result in Packet
fragmentation
- Disabled QoS on the adapter
- Relocated the router away from all other electronic
equipment
- adjusted antenna's on the NIC's and router

None of this has resolved the problem. If anyone has had a similar problem
and can lend some advice please do. I would really appreciate it. Thanks in
advance

"Tim Bosko" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>stuff works but every 60 seconds (+or- 5 seconds) I take a 50% packet loss

Sounds like external interference, maybe airport radar or something?
Try a different channel...

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:46:18 GMT, "Tim Bosko" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I recently went to wireless in my house. 4 computers total. All network
>stuff works but every 60 seconds (+or- 5 seconds) I take a 50% packet loss
>hit. This happens every minute.. never skips a beat.

Do you have any nearby rotating dish type radar installations nearby?
Are you in an industrial district that may have an RF plastic molding
pre-heater operating? Do you operate any X10 TV remote extensions?
Any nearby commercial radio sites? My guess(tm) is RF interference.

>I am using Linksys
>wireless-B router and linksys Wireless-B NIC's. This happens on all 4
>machines and it never happened when using Ethernet (2 days ago).

OK, so it's only on the wireless links. The wired LAN connections
work fine.

>Router is a BEFW11S4

Linksys makes 4 different versions of this router. I have a v4
incantation.

>- Upgraded to the most recent Firmware (1.50.14 from 1.50.10)

Must be a BEFW11S4 v4. That's what I'm using. No similar problems.

>- Reset the Router and DSL modem (Westell Wirespeed) and
>shutdown and restarted all the computers

Did you remember to reset the BEFW11S4 to default settings after
upgrading the firmware? I don't recall if it's manditory, but
methinks it's a good idea. I've been burned a few times when I didn't
do that.

>- Adjusted the MTU to one that does not result in Packet
>fragmentation

That won't help. The MTU is a negotiated value between your router
and the web server that you're browsing. If PMTU Auto Discovery is
functional, the routers will negotiate whatever lower MTU is required.
Put it back to 1500.

>- Disabled QoS on the adapter

Makes no difference as QoS only works when you have a router or server
that supports QoS. In Microsoft's implimentation, QoS is an
applications level service that requires a compatible application such
as NetMeeting. There's some glop on the MS web pile at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...mt/qoscomp.asp

>- Relocated the router away from all other electronic
>equipment
>- adjusted antenna's on the NIC's and router
>
>None of this has resolved the problem. If anyone has had a similar problem
>and can lend some advice please do. I would really appreciate it. Thanks in
>advance

First thing to try is change the channel on the BEFW11S4v4 wireless
router just in case there's some sort of 802.11 based interference.
Next, fire up Netstumbler 0.4 on a laptop and do some sniffing. What
you're looking for is an extremely strong 802.11 signal on 2.4GHz.
Also, if there's a laptop, try testing the laptop on a local 802.11
hot spot to see if it's working correctly. It could be some kind of
power saving "feature". Perhaps Windoze is polling for peripheral
changes.

Any other form of interference is going to need a spectrum analyzer.
If you can borrow one, that will be the best. If not, you can buy an
old Frequency Hopper card that will act as a reasonable spectrum
analyzer (that does NOT work with XP):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5719309772
What you're looking for is radar, microwave ovens, industrial RF
heaters, etc.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tim,

My guess is you are using windows XP and the zero configuration
program for controlling your wireless lan adapters.

The default settings with XP are to search for a better access point
periodically. This sounds like what is happening. Once a minute XP has
your card do a scan to see if any better access points can be found.
When this scan happens it disrupts everything for a few seconds.

Hi Jeff,

Hope this isnt a double post as I could not find the first reply to
yiu..


"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:46:18 GMT, "Tim Bosko" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>I recently went to wireless in my house. 4 computers total. All network
>>stuff works but every 60 seconds (+or- 5 seconds) I take a 50% packet loss
>>hit. This happens every minute.. never skips a beat.
>
> Do you have any nearby rotating dish type radar installations nearby?
> Are you in an industrial district that may have an RF plastic molding
> pre-heater operating? Do you operate any X10 TV remote extensions?
> Any nearby commercial radio sites? My guess(tm) is RF interference.

There are no radar or microwave towers within a 10 mile radius. I am pretty
much
in the woods. There is a Airport about 10 Miles away.


>>I am using Linksys
>>wireless-B router and linksys Wireless-B NIC's. This happens on all 4
>>machines and it never happened when using Ethernet (2 days ago).
>
> OK, so it's only on the wireless links. The wired LAN connections
> work fine.
>
>>Router is a BEFW11S4
>
> Linksys makes 4 different versions of this router. I have a v4
> incantation.

I also have version 4

>>- Upgraded to the most recent Firmware (1.50.14 from 1.50.10)
>
> Must be a BEFW11S4 v4. That's what I'm using. No similar problems.
>
>>- Reset the Router and DSL modem (Westell Wirespeed) and
>>shutdown and restarted all the computers
>
> Did you remember to reset the BEFW11S4 to default settings after
> upgrading the firmware? I don't recall if it's manditory, but
> methinks it's a good idea. I've been burned a few times when I didn't
> do that.

Yes I did reset the router even though the Linksys tech said it was not
necessary
after the firmware upgrade. No change

>>- Adjusted the MTU to one that does not result in Packet
>>fragmentation
>
> That won't help. The MTU is a negotiated value between your router
> and the web server that you're browsing. If PMTU Auto Discovery is
> functional, the routers will negotiate whatever lower MTU is required.
> Put it back to 1500.

I will put it back to 1500.

>>- Disabled QoS on the adapter
>
> Makes no difference as QoS only works when you have a router or server
> that supports QoS. In Microsoft's implimentation, QoS is an
> applications level service that requires a compatible application such
> as NetMeeting. There's some glop on the MS web pile at:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000...mt/qoscomp.asp
>
>>- Relocated the router away from all other electronic
>>equipment
>>- adjusted antenna's on the NIC's and router
>>
>>None of this has resolved the problem. If anyone has had a similar problem
>>and can lend some advice please do. I would really appreciate it. Thanks
>>in
>>advance
>
> First thing to try is change the channel on the BEFW11S4v4 wireless
> router just in case there's some sort of 802.11 based interference.
> Next, fire up Netstumbler 0.4 on a laptop and do some sniffing. What
> you're looking for is an extremely strong 802.11 signal on 2.4GHz.
> Also, if there's a laptop, try testing the laptop on a local 802.11
> hot spot to see if it's working correctly. It could be some kind of
> power saving "feature". Perhaps Windoze is polling for peripheral
> changes.

I forgot to mention in my initial post, I did try all channels and channed 6
was the
best (That is what it has been on since the install). All other channels
result in
much worse packet loss (Constant) some worse than others. Channel 6 is solid
until that "Hit" takes place every minute.

> Any other form of interference is going to need a spectrum analyzer.
> If you can borrow one, that will be the best. If not, you can buy an
> old Frequency Hopper card that will act as a reasonable spectrum
> analyzer (that does NOT work with XP):
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5719309772
> What you're looking for is radar, microwave ovens, industrial RF
> heaters, etc.

No other interference. 3 of the 4 machines are located on the top floor (of
4 floors)
and one is on the 3rd floor.

There is however another access point that is showing up when I look at the
"available Wireless Networks"
button on the adapter properties, is see my SSID with all 6 green bars for
signal strength.
I also see an access point called "MSHOME" and it has 2 green bars. So there
are
actually two access points it appears. How can i get rid of the MSHOME One?
I have looked
everywhere and cant see where to delete it or atleast tell my NICS not to
look for it. It shows
up on all 4 of my machines (One of which is a Laptop). It is at like 33%
signal strength where
my connection is at 100%.

Thanks again for the help so far.. It is greatly appreciated.






> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

This is interesting. From the start when I look at the "available Wireless
Networks"
button on the adapter properties, is see my SSID with all 6 green bars for
signal strength.
I also see an access point called "MSHOME" and it has 2 green bars. So there
are
actually two access points it appears. How can i get rid of the MSHOME One?
I have looked
everywhere and cant see where to delete it or atleast tell my NICS not to
look for it. It shows
up on all 4 of my machines (One of which is a Laptop). It is at like 33%
signal strength where
my connection is at 100%.

How can I tell i am using Win XP "Zero" configuration and how do I disable
it to see if that
solves the problem?

Please reply ..

"K Bloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Tim,
>
> My guess is you are using windows XP and the zero configuration
> program for controlling your wireless lan adapters.
>
> The default settings with XP are to search for a better access point
> periodically. This sounds like what is happening. Once a minute XP has
> your card do a scan to see if any better access points can be found.
> When this scan happens it disrupts everything for a few seconds.

Tim Bosko wrote:
> This is interesting. From the start when I look at the "available
> Wireless Networks"
> button on the adapter properties, is see my SSID with all 6 green
> bars for signal strength.
> I also see an access point called "MSHOME" and it has 2 green bars.
> So there are
> actually two access points it appears. How can i get rid of the
> MSHOME One? I have looked
> everywhere and cant see where to delete it or atleast tell my NICS
> not to look for it. It shows
> up on all 4 of my machines (One of which is a Laptop). It is at like
> 33% signal strength where
> my connection is at 100%.
>
> How can I tell i am using Win XP "Zero" configuration and how do I
> disable it to see if that
> solves the problem?
>
> Please reply ..
>
> "K Bloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
>> Tim,
>>
>> My guess is you are using windows XP and the zero configuration
>> program for controlling your wireless lan adapters.
>>
>> The default settings with XP are to search for a better access point
>> periodically. This sounds like what is happening. Once a minute XP
>> has your card do a scan to see if any better access points can be
>> found. When this scan happens it disrupts everything for a few
>> seconds.

Wireless Zero = Let Windows Manage this Connection checkbox. If this is
active, then you can *try* the advanced settings for the network type -
only connect to preferred networks, and remove any network but yours
from the preferred networks. This has limited effect in XP SP1; SP2 is
much more robust.

Otherwise you can disable this checkbox and use the settings in Device
Manager to configure your cards (not the card's configuration utility,
which is unnecessary baggage to have installed -IMO). This might be a
good test on one of your computers since it is quick and easy to do. If
that test fails, then do a search of your home for interference - older
portable telephones are notorious for leaking their cyclic communication
with the base station, cell phones are usually benign, but don't
overlook anything at home.

Q

Thanks a bunch for all the replies. The problem is no more. I turned off the
Zero Configuration Service and all is good. Thanks again all..


"Quaoar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news6udnd4jwZWYs9vcRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Tim Bosko wrote:
>> This is interesting. From the start when I look at the "available
>> Wireless Networks"
>> button on the adapter properties, is see my SSID with all 6 green
>> bars for signal strength.
>> I also see an access point called "MSHOME" and it has 2 green bars.
>> So there are
>> actually two access points it appears. How can i get rid of the
>> MSHOME One? I have looked
>> everywhere and cant see where to delete it or atleast tell my NICS
>> not to look for it. It shows
>> up on all 4 of my machines (One of which is a Laptop). It is at like
>> 33% signal strength where
>> my connection is at 100%.
>>
>> How can I tell i am using Win XP "Zero" configuration and how do I
>> disable it to see if that
>> solves the problem?
>>
>> Please reply ..
>>
>> "K Bloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> My guess is you are using windows XP and the zero configuration
>>> program for controlling your wireless lan adapters.
>>>
>>> The default settings with XP are to search for a better access point
>>> periodically. This sounds like what is happening. Once a minute XP
>>> has your card do a scan to see if any better access points can be
>>> found. When this scan happens it disrupts everything for a few
>>> seconds.
>
> Wireless Zero = Let Windows Manage this Connection checkbox. If this is
> active, then you can *try* the advanced settings for the network type -
> only connect to preferred networks, and remove any network but yours from
> the preferred networks. This has limited effect in XP SP1; SP2 is much
> more robust.
>
> Otherwise you can disable this checkbox and use the settings in Device
> Manager to configure your cards (not the card's configuration utility,
> which is unnecessary baggage to have installed -IMO). This might be a
> good test on one of your computers since it is quick and easy to do. If
> that test fails, then do a search of your home for interference - older
> portable telephones are notorious for leaking their cyclic communication
> with the base station, cell phones are usually benign, but don't overlook
> anything at home.
>
> Q
>

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:47:10 GMT, "Tim Bosko" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>There are no radar or microwave towers within a 10 mile radius. I am pretty
>much
>in the woods. There is a Airport about 10 Miles away.

That fairly well eliminates radar interference.

>Yes I did reset the router even though the Linksys tech said it was not
>necessary
>after the firmware upgrade. No change

Some of the early firmware upgrades required a reset to defaults or
they would leave garbage in the various values. Later versions seem
to clear it for you. However, I've gotten into trouble when I save
the settings to a file before an upgrade, and then try to restore it
after the upgrade. The files that break the setting down into ascii
text values seem to work fine, but the binary images of the settings
often screws up.

>I forgot to mention in my initial post, I did try all channels and channed 6
>was the
>best (That is what it has been on since the install). All other channels
>result in
>much worse packet loss (Constant) some worse than others. Channel 6 is solid
>until that "Hit" takes place every minute.

That seems to imply that there is some kind of RF interference. In
theory, if there was no local sources of RF interference, the
peformance on all channels should be roughly the same. There may be
slight differences between performance at the band edges caused by
narrow band (or high VSWR) antennas, but it should not be spectacular
or easily noticed.

>No other interference. 3 of the 4 machines are located on the top floor (of
>4 floors)
>and one is on the 3rd floor.

Well, the higher up you are, the more nearby radios you can hear. Any
way you can move the access point and one of the client radios to some
place that does not have a good view of the neighborhood? If it's RF
interference, you should be able to block it with either a metal
reflector, or absorb it with a wet towel (anything with water in it).

>There is however another access point that is showing up when I look at the
>"available Wireless Networks"
>button on the adapter properties, is see my SSID with all 6 green bars for
>signal strength.

What channel is it on? Try to put your access point on a channel
they're not using. The non-overlapping channels are 1, 6, and 11.
This other access point could be a source of RF interference.

>I also see an access point called "MSHOME" and it has 2 green bars. So there
>are
>actually two access points it appears. How can i get rid of the MSHOME One?

You don't. Just ignore it. It should not cause a problem unless
you're both on the same channel.

>I have looked
>everywhere and cant see where to delete it or atleast tell my NICS not to
>look for it. It shows
>up on all 4 of my machines (One of which is a Laptop). It is at like 33%
>signal strength where
>my connection is at 100%.

I still think you should try the laptops at a hot spot and see if they
still have the problem. If that doesn't help, substitute another
router.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558