3mile connection without line of sight

Hi,

I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet connection
sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag is,
they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.

is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?

Many Thanks,
Kev

In article <hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed)>,
The Hat <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet connection
:sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag is,
:they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.

:is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?

You probably can't do it with 802.11a/b/g without really *tall* masts,
unless the laws of that location permit a few watts EIRP. But it's hard
for us to give an estimate based on the information you have
provided -- is there just a little bit of signal shadowing? Do
the sites literally have a mountain between them?

Do get around lack of line of sight, you either need a very
high signal level (possibly hundreds of watts if you are trying
to beam through solid rock), or you need to use a different
frequency band that is more permiable to radio (much lower frequencies),
or you need to clear the obstacles so the antenna do have LOS,
or you need to use reflectors or repeaters to play snooker with the
signa to get it where you want. Or you need to tear down the obstacles.
Or use a satellite based service. Or lay wires or fibres.

--
Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow.
That's my point.

"The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hi,
>
> I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
> connection sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each
> other. snag is, they are in the mountains, and there is no line of
> sight.
>
> is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
>
> Many Thanks,
> Kev
>
>

SOMETIMES, with high-gain directioanl antenna's, for short range, you can
do it, most times not.

You don't provide enough information to get a good answer. You say
there's no line-of-sight, but is that from the ground level at both ends
? From roof to roof ? What we used to do is have a tiny camera on a 20
foot mast so we could see what the antenna would actually 'see'.

If you have lat and long for the location's, you could do a prop study.

Wow!!!! I'm really glad you asked this question.....I did a quick search
and found a free rf prop study software. It appears to run on top of M$
Mappoint, now if the author.........

http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html , I can't believe this is free...


Regards,

DS

thanks for your input:

ok, were talking in rural spain, there is n o line of sight from roof to
roof, i am not there at the moment, so cant confirm if there is literally a
mountain in the way, but have the feeling that there probably is. if you
imagine a big windy canyon, with 2 buildings 3 miles apart.......

regarding the law, not really sure if there is a power limit, but i guess i
dont wanna interfere with peoples radios, tv's or mobile phones, etc.

repeaters / reflectors are a bit of a no go really, and i dont have long /
lat info.

will try and get a little more information about the landscape,

thanks,

Kev


"DS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns94EB90C411C17idispcom@216.65.98.77...
> "The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed):
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
> > connection sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each
> > other. snag is, they are in the mountains, and there is no line of
> > sight.
> >
> > is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
> >
> > Many Thanks,
> > Kev
> >
> >
>
> SOMETIMES, with high-gain directioanl antenna's, for short range, you can
> do it, most times not.
>
> You don't provide enough information to get a good answer. You say
> there's no line-of-sight, but is that from the ground level at both ends
> ? From roof to roof ? What we used to do is have a tiny camera on a 20
> foot mast so we could see what the antenna would actually 'see'.
>
> If you have lat and long for the location's, you could do a prop study.
>
> Wow!!!! I'm really glad you asked this question.....I did a quick search
> and found a free rf prop study software. It appears to run on top of M$
> Mappoint, now if the author.........
>
> http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html , I can't believe this is free...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> DS
>
>

The Hat <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet connection
> sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag is,
> they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.

Some claim that passive redirectors work.

Part one
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010628.html
Part two
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010712.html
References
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/links/links20010712.html


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5

The Hat <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet connection
> sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag is,
> they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.
>
> is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?

If there is no line of sight, and part of the obstruction is a mountain,
then you basically have to either dig a tunnel, or find nearby high points
that you can put repeaters that can see them.

"The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
connection
> sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag
is,
> they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.
>
> is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
>
> Many Thanks,
> Kev

You could take a look at Orthogon Systems. They have a nice
NLOS product. It's OFDM at 5.8GHz - I'm not sure that band
is available for use in Spain?

The Hat wrote:

> thanks for your input:
>
> ok, were talking in rural spain, there is n o line of sight from roof to
> roof, i am not there at the moment, so cant confirm if there is literally
> a
> mountain in the way, but have the feeling that there probably is. if you
> imagine a big windy canyon, with 2 buildings 3 miles apart.......
>
> regarding the law, not really sure if there is a power limit, but i guess
> i dont wanna interfere with peoples radios, tv's or mobile phones, etc.
Most of Europe is subject to ETSI regulations, and that gives you a
maximum power of 100mW EIRP, in other words not just the card
power but the aerial again as well (and cable losses). 3 miles is quite
possible within those limits, but only line of sight.
>
> repeaters / reflectors are a bit of a no go really, and i dont have long /
> lat info.
>
> will try and get a little more information about the landscape,
>
> thanks,
>
> Kev
>
>
> "DS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns94EB90C411C17idispcom@216.65.98.77...
>> "The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
>> > connection sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each
>> > other. snag is, they are in the mountains, and there is no line of
>> > sight.
>> >
>> > is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
>> >
>> > Many Thanks,
>> > Kev
>> >
>> >
>>
>> SOMETIMES, with high-gain directioanl antenna's, for short range, you can
>> do it, most times not.
>>
>> You don't provide enough information to get a good answer. You say
>> there's no line-of-sight, but is that from the ground level at both ends
>> ? From roof to roof ? What we used to do is have a tiny camera on a 20
>> foot mast so we could see what the antenna would actually 'see'.
>>
>> If you have lat and long for the location's, you could do a prop study.
>>
>> Wow!!!! I'm really glad you asked this question.....I did a quick search
>> and found a free rf prop study software. It appears to run on top of M$
>> Mappoint, now if the author.........
>>
>> http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html , I can't believe this is free...
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> DS
>>
>>

"News Reader" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1084798849.10473.0
@despina.uk.clara.net:

>
> "The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
> connection
>> sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag
> is,
>> they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.
>>
>> is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>> Kev
>
> You could take a look at Orthogon Systems. They have a nice
> NLOS product. It's OFDM at 5.8GHz - I'm not sure that band
> is available for use in Spain?
>
>
>

A company called WaveRider out of Canada offers 900 mHz NLOS equipment
also, if you wanted to purchase equipment. Only 2 mBits tho.

www.waverider.com

DS wrote:
> "News Reader" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:1084798849.10473.0
> @despina.uk.clara.net:
>
>
>>"The Hat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:hVNpc.147$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I need to connect 2 or more buildings for the purpose of internet
>>
>>connection
>>
>>>sharing and file exchange. they are within 3 miles of each other. snag
>>
>>is,
>>
>>>they are in the mountains, and there is no line of sight.
>>>
>>>is this a possibility using wireless products ? at a sensible price ?
>>>
>>>Many Thanks,
>>>Kev
>>
>>You could take a look at Orthogon Systems. They have a nice
>>NLOS product. It's OFDM at 5.8GHz - I'm not sure that band
>>is available for use in Spain?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> A company called WaveRider out of Canada offers 900 mHz NLOS equipment
> also, if you wanted to purchase equipment. Only 2 mBits tho.
>
> www.waverider.com

Also in the 900mHz business is Alvarion and Trango. Don't expect
miracles with NLOS (near line of sight, *not* non line of sight) but
definitely more penetrating power than Wifi.