2mb upgade when failed originally - any point?

Quite happy really, after reading the woes of others here I maybe
shoudn't be asking this, but...

I applied for 2mb line via Metronet, and it came back as failed, line
quality not good enough for 2mb.

We tried 1mb and no problems, activated quickly and very happy, no
disconnects to speak of, recommend Metronet to anybody.

So I'm wondering if there is any point in requesting a 2mb upgrade just
to see since 1mb seems to be no problem.

My router (Draytek Vigor 2600VG) reports SNR as as low as 4 and as high
as 8, and loop attenuation of 50-52 depending on the day! I know these
are outside limits but I also know how inaccurate the figures from the
router can be. I am 3km from exchange but I know the wires can go
anywhere!

This house has a maze of telephone extensions in almost every room, I
was thinking of adding one of those master socket microfilters in a
seperate box as first extention as master isn't one of those NT5's. Or
is it NTE's? Disconnecting the internal extentions and just having the
router plugged into the master - see if those figures can be improved?
Any point tho, I know I'm being cheeky, 1mb is fast enough really! And
52db is pretty high...

Steve





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Take out no before @ and spam after

My router (Draytek Vigor 2600VG) reports SNR as low as 4 and as high
as 8, and loop attenuation of 50-52 depending on the day!

No way, Not with those figures, They seem very bad anyway. Especially the
SNR numbers.




"Steve" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:2004121513165675249%stek1961no@spammaccom...
> Quite happy really, after reading the woes of others here I maybe shoudn't
> be asking this, but...
>
> I applied for 2mb line via Metronet, and it came back as failed, line
> quality not good enough for 2mb.
>
> We tried 1mb and no problems, activated quickly and very happy, no
> disconnects to speak of, recommend Metronet to anybody.
>
> So I'm wondering if there is any point in requesting a 2mb upgrade just to
> see since 1mb seems to be no problem.
>
> My router (Draytek Vigor 2600VG) reports SNR as as low as 4 and as high as
> 8, and loop attenuation of 50-52 depending on the day! I know these are
> outside limits but I also know how inaccurate the figures from the router
> can be. I am 3km from exchange but I know the wires can go anywhere!
>
> This house has a maze of telephone extensions in almost every room, I was
> thinking of adding one of those master socket microfilters in a seperate
> box as first extention as master isn't one of those NT5's. Or is it NTE's?
> Disconnecting the internal extentions and just having the router plugged
> into the master - see if those figures can be improved? Any point tho, I
> know I'm being cheeky, 1mb is fast enough really! And 52db is pretty
> high...
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Take out no before @ and spam after
>

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:16:56 +0000, Steve <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Quite happy really, after reading the woes of others here I maybe
>shoudn't be asking this, but...
>
>I applied for 2mb line via Metronet, and it came back as failed, line
>quality not good enough for 2mb.
>
>We tried 1mb and no problems, activated quickly and very happy, no
>disconnects to speak of, recommend Metronet to anybody.
>

My line failed on a 1Mb application a couple of years ago and recently
failed on a 2Mb application, resubmiited for 1Mb and passed. I'm sure
this is the result of BT's revision of tolerances. My guess is that
your line still won't pass for 2Mb.

Steve wrote:
> Quite happy really, after reading the woes of others here I maybe
> shoudn't be asking this, but...
>
> I applied for 2mb line via Metronet, and it came back as failed, line
> quality not good enough for 2mb.
>
> We tried 1mb and no problems, activated quickly and very happy, no
> disconnects to speak of, recommend Metronet to anybody.
>
> So I'm wondering if there is any point in requesting a 2mb upgrade
> just to see since 1mb seems to be no problem.
>
> My router (Draytek Vigor 2600VG) reports SNR as as low as 4 and as
> high as 8, and loop attenuation of 50-52 depending on the day! I know
> these are outside limits but I also know how inaccurate the figures
> from the router can be. I am 3km from exchange but I know the wires
> can go anywhere!

Loop Attenuation for 2 meg is 45db, you are outside spec & I'd worry about
the varying SNR as well (especially as it's going as low as 4db). If you
are using plug in filters try thinking of a way to use a faceplate filter it
at all possible as I've proved them to stabilize SNR problems. If you can't
do that try disconnecting the bell wire on _ALL_ extensions as that can cure
it as well

>
> Loop Attenuation for 2 meg is 45db, you are outside spec & I'd worry
> about the varying SNR as well (especially as it's going as low as 4db).
> If you are using plug in filters try thinking of a way to use a
> faceplate filter it at all possible as I've proved them to stabilize
> SNR problems. If you can't do that try disconnecting the bell wire on
> _ALL_ extensions as that can cure it as well


Actually the 4db was a one off it seems, only saw it the once while
plugging/unplugging stuff to try and reduce it. It's sat at 9.0db now,
like 99% of the time, Loop Att. 51.5

I'd agree i'm unlikely to get past 1mb, but the connection is strong
and stable, not like my bros half meg with better ratios than me line
that's always losing sync.

Pity there's no 'lets try it and see' option!

Steve


--
Take out no before @ and spam after

9dB on 1 meg, would give around -3dB at 2 Meg, ie not enough signal to sync
with.

2 Meg will not work with your high noise. I say noise, as you should have
plenty of signal there, but lost of noise too.
I am on 1 meg with 64dB attenuation, and 14dB SNR. You SNR readings are way
too low for your line, either you have a very noisy (Electrically) area, or
there is a problem somewhere.

Steve,

If you are only 3km from the exchange, the figures seem rather high. I'm
3.8km (as the cable goes) from the exchange and have 2meg ADSL working on a
Draytek2600VG. My figures are stable and always within .5dB of: Loop Att.
39dB, SNR Margin 24dB. However I do use a SSFP aka NTE2000 aka Master socket
faceplate filter and have kept my extensions to a min'.

>
> This house has a maze of telephone extensions in almost every room, I was
> thinking of adding one of those master socket microfilters in a

It would be worth disconnecting all your extensions, just leaving the BT
master on the incoming line and testing again. If you find that the Loop
Att. figure drops below 43dB it would be worth fitting a NTE2000 SSFP
faceplate and leaving the router at this point.

As you have pointed out you don't have newer type of master socket ie the
NTE5a with removable lower half and test socket, so you could talk to your
SP and try to get a BT Broadband engineering visit to improve you wiring as
you believe it is affecting your ability to order 2meg and the stability of
your existing 1 meg service. As you have the older type master socket you
can't easily disconnect "your" extension wiring. You can, but reconnecting
it afterwards can be a problem if you don't have the correct Krone tool.

> My router (Draytek Vigor 2600VG) reports SNR as low as 4 and as high as 8,
> and loop attenuation of 50-52 depending on the day! I know these

You do need to look into why your SNR is so low, I would lay odds on one of
the extensions causing the problems. If it is still this low with all the
extensions removed talk to your SP and get a BT Broadband Engineering visit
to look into it for you. Broadband engineers are able to test the line at
several points a long your line to see if a section is at fault, and if need
be replace or swap it out. Tea and bickies may even get you a SSFP fitted
FOC !! .

Get your Loop loss below 43dB and you shouldn't have a problem ordering 2meg
!!

73's Phill H

> If you are only 3km from the exchange, the figures seem rather high.
> I'm 3.8km (as the cable goes) from the exchange and have 2meg ADSL
> working on a Draytek2600VG. My figures are stable and always within
> .5dB of: Loop Att. 39dB, SNR Margin 24dB. However I do use a SSFP aka
> NTE2000 aka Master socket faceplate filter and have kept my extensions
> to a min'.

Thanks for the informative and positive reply mate!

So is the initial BT line test affected by extensions and things
plugged into them? Others have posted here saying it doesn't. Or would
it be poor wiring that could affect it?
>
> It would be worth disconnecting all your extensions, just leaving the
> BT master on the incoming line and testing again. If you find that the
> Loop Att. figure drops below 43dB it would be worth fitting a NTE2000
> SSFP faceplate and leaving the router at this point.

I know I'm not supposed to arse about with this socket, but someone has
in the past! Must have to patch in the spaghetti extension wiring.


>
> As you have pointed out you don't have newer type of master socket ie
> the NTE5a with removable lower half and test socket, so you could talk
> to your SP and try to get a BT Broadband engineering visit to improve
> you wiring as you believe it is affecting your ability to order 2meg
> and the stability of your existing 1 meg service. As you have the older
> type master socket you can't easily disconnect "your" extension wiring.
> You can, but reconnecting it afterwards can be a problem if you don't
> have the correct Krone tool.

Is that similar to a punch tool for punching cat5 cables?

> You do need to look into why your SNR is so low, I would lay odds on
> one of the extensions causing the problems. If it is still this low
> with all the extensions removed talk to your SP and get a BT Broadband
> Engineering visit to look into it for you. Broadband engineers are able
> to test the line at several points a long your line to see if a section
> is at fault, and if need be replace or swap it out. Tea and bickies may
> even get you a SSFP fitted FOC !! .

Do I do this by reporting a fault? The odd thing is this is a new
number on the old line I presume. The adsl checker on old number said
2mb ok, the new number said 1mb. Weird.


>
> Get your Loop loss below 43dB and you shouldn't have a problem ordering 2meg !!
>
>
>
>

This weekend I will mainly be disconnecting telephone extension wiring.

Thanks Phil!

Steve


--


Take out no before @ and spam after

Right, I do have an NTE5, it was upstairs!

I connected the router to the socket behind the faceplate and the SNR
has improved a lot. From 8 to 25db. However loop att is still 51db.

Alos the Vigor doesn't presnet these figures as upstream or downstream
like other routers, any ideas?

Thanks

Steve

> Alos the Vigor doesn't presnet these figures as upstream or downstream
> like other routers, any ideas?


Got it! telnet and adsl status!

--------------------------- ATU-R Info (annex A) ----------------------------
Running Mode : T1.413 State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 1152000 bps US Actual Rate : 288000 bps
DS maximum Rate : 6112000 bps US maximum Rate : 864000 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
NE Current Attenuation : 51.0 dB Cur SNR Margin : 24.5 dB
DS actual PSDM(C) : 00000007 US actual PSDM(R) : 0000231f
ADSL Firmware Version : 41e2be2c
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 31.5 dB Far SNR Margin : 23.0 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : 00000000 CO ITU Version[1] : 00000000
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < Unknown >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTL, DSTREAM bytes/depth= 1, symbols/codewords = 0, latency= 0*0.25ms.
, USTREAM bytes/depth= 1, symbols/codewords = 0, latency= 0*0.25ms.
CODE, DSTREAM fast parity bytes= 0, fast codeword= 37.
DSTREAM intl parity bytes= 0, intl codeword= 0.
CODE, USTREAM fast parity bytes= 0, fast codeword= 10.
USTREAM intl parity bytes= 0, intl codeword= 0.
Setting>>
FDQ : Enable, TCM : Enable, EC : Disable, Framing Mode : 3.
Running>>
FDQ : In Use, TCM : In Use, EC : Off.
DS : Framing Mode 3, US : Framing Mode 3.
ADI ADSL Firmware Version: 41e2be2c