2 WLAN PCI Cards + Linux(?) = repeater/relay

Hi!
I'm building a WiFi home network and I need to make a signal repeater
(relay?) using PC with 2 PCI Prism 2.5 cards. Is it possible?

It should be a "transparent" device that will take the signal from the
top of the roof and transport it into my apartment (and vice versa). The
ultimate goal is to connect laptops to the AP which can't be seen from
inside of my apartment (but I see it clearly from the roof) and the
interval between roof and AP is almost 800m (so even if I could see the
Access Point from my apartment, wifi devices from the laptops won't
reach it). I don't want to make AP or anything like that. I want to
simple connect my home devices to master AP at the lowest cost (I
already have a old PC Box and 2 Prism Cards).

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On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:39:24 +0200, in alt.internet.wireless , Booski
Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hi!
>I'm building a WiFi home network and I need to make a signal repeater
>(relay?) using PC with 2 PCI Prism 2.5 cards. Is it possible?

Lets see if we have this straight:
*you have a wireless hotspot or somesuch 800m from your building.
*From the roof, you can connect to it.
*From inside your apartment, you can't.

You want some device that will connect to the AP, then rebroadcast to
your apartment.

The simplest would be to put a wireless bridge on the roof with a
suitable antenna pointed at the hotspot, then drop ethernet cable down
to your apartment. Unless someone objects, you can probably just drop
it down the outside of the building.
You might be able to chain the bridge onto a wireless router or AP on
the roof, but that will broadcast to your entire apartment building,
and probably some of the neighbouring ones.

>reach it). I don't want to make AP or anything like that.

Thats what you're doing tho !

>I want to
>simple connect my home devices to master AP at the lowest cost (I
>already have a old PC Box and 2 Prism Cards).

AFAIK client PC cards don't have a non-client mode, and anyway can't
act as infrastructure servers. You do need an AP for that.
Mark McIntyre
--

Mark McIntyre napisa³(a):
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:39:24 +0200, in alt.internet.wireless , Booski
> Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I'm building a WiFi home network and I need to make a signal repeater
>> (relay?) using PC with 2 PCI Prism 2.5 cards. Is it possible?
>
> Lets see if we have this straight:
not exactly

> *you have a wireless hotspot or somesuch 800m from your building.
correct

> *From the roof, you can connect to it.
yes, but only using exterior antenna with higher gain than antennas in
my laptops

> *From inside your apartment, you can't.
correct

> You want some device that will connect to the AP, then rebroadcast to
> your apartment.

No. I want device that will let my laptops connect _directly_ to the AP,
so each of them would get their own IP and bandwith. In other words, I
need a device that will help my laptops connect to the master Acces
Point. Something that will make possible to use single antenna by 4
computers.

> The simplest would be to put a wireless bridge on the roof with a
> suitable antenna pointed at the hotspot, then drop ethernet cable down
> to your apartment.

No, because in that case I would have to share single bandwith and
single IP with 4 computers.

>> reach it). I don't want to make AP or anything like that.
>
> Thats what you're doing tho !
No, I'm not.

>> I want to
>> simple connect my home devices to master AP at the lowest cost (I
>> already have a old PC Box and 2 Prism Cards).
>
> AFAIK client PC cards don't have a non-client mode, and anyway can't
> act as infrastructure servers. You do need an AP for that.

Yes, they have. You can use Linux + HostAP drivers + WLAN Card with
Prism 2.5 chipset to build Access Point. There are plenty of tutorials
on the net.

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=========================
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On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:36:20 +0200, in alt.internet.wireless , Booski
Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>No. I want device that will let my laptops connect _directly_ to the AP,
>so each of them would get their own IP and bandwith. In other words, I
>need a device that will help my laptops connect to the master Acces
>Point. Something that will make possible to use single antenna by 4
>computers.

Yes, this is called "hardwiring the PCs to the bridge on the roof" and
is what I described... :-)

Seriously tho, you can't do that, the antenna is either connected to a
bridge, or its connected to a single client, and then rebroadcasts
either wirelessly or via wires.

>> The simplest would be to put a wireless bridge on the roof with a
>> suitable antenna pointed at the hotspot, then drop ethernet cable down
>> to your apartment.
>
>No, because in that case I would have to share single bandwith and
>single IP with 4 computers.

If you have a single antenna you have to do that.

>> AFAIK client PC cards don't have a non-client mode, and anyway can't
>> act as infrastructure servers. You do need an AP for that.
>
>Yes, they have. You can use Linux + HostAP drivers + WLAN Card with
>Prism 2.5 chipset to build Access Point. There are plenty of tutorials
>on the net.

Sure, and the prism card in my actiontec router does that too, via
suitable firmware / sw in the router. But then its no longer a client
card.
Mark McIntyre
--

Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> No. I want device that will let my laptops connect _directly_ to the AP,
>> so each of them would get their own IP and bandwith. In other words, I
>> need a device that will help my laptops connect to the master Acces
>> Point. Something that will make possible to use single antenna by 4
>> computers.
>
> Yes, this is called "hardwiring the PCs to the bridge on the roof" and
> is what I described... :-)
>
> Seriously tho, you can't do that, the antenna is either connected to a
> bridge, or its connected to a single client, and then rebroadcasts
> either wirelessly or via wires.

Ok, I get it. So, what I want to do, is a wireless-wireless bridge. I
have 2 PCI WiFi cards, so one will be connect to antenna on the roof and
second will be connected to another antenna in my apartment. I want send
everything that 1st card get to 2nd card and vice versa. Is it possible?
I read about wireless-ethernet bridge, but I couldn't find anything
about wireless-wireless bridge.

>>> AFAIK client PC cards don't have a non-client mode, and anyway can't
>>> act as infrastructure servers. You do need an AP for that.
>> Yes, they have. You can use Linux + HostAP drivers + WLAN Card with
>> Prism 2.5 chipset to build Access Point. There are plenty of tutorials
>> on the net.
>
> Sure, and the prism card in my actiontec router does that too, via
> suitable firmware / sw in the router. But then its no longer a client
> card.

Ok, but is it changing anything for me? It's still possible with HostAP
and Prism 2.5 cards.

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=========================
"make install, not love!"
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On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:57:53 +0200, in alt.internet.wireless , Booski
Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Ok, I get it. So, what I want to do, is a wireless-wireless bridge. I
>have 2 PCI WiFi cards, so one will be connect to antenna on the roof and
>second will be connected to another antenna in my apartment.

That'd require an very long antenna lead, and you'd lose virtually all
signal in the cable. Its not going to work, I strongly suspect.

Jeff Liebermann can probably do the maths for you if you supply all
the relevant data eg cable run lengths and type, antenna type, gain
and so forth, cable impedance, exact AP or card model and revision
number, exact topology of your location and so forth.

> I want send
>everything that 1st card get to 2nd card and vice versa. Is it possible?

sure, route from one card to the other. If using Windows, enable ICS
between them. If using linux, just enable routing. By the way, what
you're building is called a "router".....

>I read about wireless-ethernet bridge, but I couldn't find anything
>about wireless-wireless bridge.

Frankly it'd be a lot simpler (and more likely to work) to buy a pair
of cheap APs which have bridge mode, hook em together with Cat5 and
put one (in bridge mode) on the roof hooked to your directional
antenna, and the other (in AP mode) in your apartment. Mucking about
with a pair of old client cards and a junk PC is going to be painful
and time consuming.
Mark McIntyre
--

Mark McIntyre wrote:

>> Ok, I get it. So, what I want to do, is a wireless-wireless bridge. I
>> have 2 PCI WiFi cards, so one will be connect to antenna on the roof and
>> second will be connected to another antenna in my apartment.
>
> That'd require an very long antenna lead, and you'd lose virtually all
> signal in the cable. Its not going to work, I strongly suspect.

Don't be so sure. I will use 20m H1000 cable with 20dBi antenna. So it
shouldn't be that bad.

>
> Jeff Liebermann can probably do the maths for you if you supply all
> the relevant data eg cable run lengths and type, antenna type, gain
> and so forth, cable impedance, exact AP or card model and revision
> number, exact topology of your location and so forth.
>
>> I want send
>> everything that 1st card get to 2nd card and vice versa. Is it possible?
>
> sure, route from one card to the other. If using Windows, enable ICS
> between them. If using linux, just enable routing. By the way, what
> you're building is called a "router".....

Why router and not a bridge?

>
>> I read about wireless-ethernet bridge, but I couldn't find anything
>> about wireless-wireless bridge.
>
> Frankly it'd be a lot simpler (and more likely to work) to buy a pair
> of cheap APs which have bridge mode, hook em together with Cat5 and
> put one (in bridge mode) on the roof

The problem is, that I just can't put on the roof anything else than
antenna.

hooked to your directional
> antenna, and the other (in AP mode) in your apartment. Mucking about
> with a pair of old client cards and a junk PC is going to be painful
> and time consuming.

But what you described is very similar to my idea. The only difference
is, I will use WLAN PCI Cards (which can work as AP with HostAP) instead
of AP. And maybe they're old, but it's still a very good piece of
hardware (Just google for them - they work perfect with proper firmware).

--
|3 0 $ |< ! < i N e |<
=========================
"make install, not love!"
http://boskastrona.xhejn.org

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:15:12 +0200, in alt.internet.wireless , Booski
Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>But what you described is very similar to my idea. The only difference
>is, I will use WLAN PCI Cards (which can work as AP with HostAP) instead
>of AP. And maybe they're old, but it's still a very good piece of
>hardware (Just google for them - they work perfect with proper firmware).

If you decided to do this already, why did you ask ?

Do the maths for your antenna cable. At 2.4Ghz the attenuation in
cable is quite high.

--
Mark McIntyre

Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> But what you described is very similar to my idea. The only difference
>> is, I will use WLAN PCI Cards (which can work as AP with HostAP) instead
>> of AP. And maybe they're old, but it's still a very good piece of
>> hardware (Just google for them - they work perfect with proper firmware).
>
> If you decided to do this already, why did you ask ?

Because I'm totally newbie in WiFi and I wanted to make sure that it
will work. Actually I'm still a little afraid that it won't work as I
imagine.
And you really helped me with all this answers you gave. I'm serious.
Big thanks for you.

> Do the maths for your antenna cable. At 2.4Ghz the attenuation in
> cable is quite high.

I know, but, as I said, I just don't have other options.
So let me summarize:
1. The cable between antenna on the roof and WLAN Card is quite long,
but I don't have any choice, so I will use low attenuation cable (H1000)
and some hope
2. The scheme of my network is:

master AP
:
:
:
antenna on the roof
|
| 20m H1000 cable
|
1st WiFi PCI card working as AP Client
|
| bridge (powered by Linux)
|
2nd WiFi PCI card working as AP Server
:
:
:
5 computers with WiFi cards

And from the master AP point of view it should look like that:

[ m a s t e r A P ]
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :
1st 2nd ...... 5th
comp. comp.

Am I right?

legend:
| - wire
: - wireless

--
|3 0 $ |< ! < i N e |<
=========================
"make install, not love!"
http://boskastrona.xhejn.org

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <e2ovd5$c1l$(E-Mail Removed)> on Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:23:14 +0200, Booski
Cinek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>..., as I said, I just don't have other options.
>So let me summarize:
>1. The cable between antenna on the roof and WLAN Card is quite long,
>but I don't have any choice, so I will use low attenuation cable (H1000)
>and some hope

Sure you do. Run Ethernet cable to the roof; put a client wireless-Ethernet
bridge on the roof; and power the access point with POE (power over Ethernet).

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